Re: [tied] Re: Germanic Scythians?

--- John <jdcroft@...> wrote:

> Hi George
>
> You asked
>
> > GK: Scythopolis doesn't enter history under
> its
> > Greek name until the Hellenistic period. The
> current
> > archaeological and historical consensus sees it as
> a
> > Ptolemaic foundation. What's your source for an
> > Assyrian connection in the 670's?

> *******GK: I will comment on John's response between

his lines.*****

> Beth-Shan guards the road from Gilead in
> Trans-Jordan and also from
> Galilee along the valley of the Jordan; consequently
> it is an
> important strategic point at a crossroads,
> protecting the eastern
> gate of the Esdraelon Valley against encroachment
> from the north and
> east.

******GK: No problem. All accurate.*******

>
> In the days of Assurbanipal's father, Esarhaddon,
> the Scythians came
> down from the steppes of Russia and, crossing the
> Caucasus, arrived
> at the lake of Urmia. Their king Kashtiari went to
> the help of Assur-
> banipal when the Medes and the Babylonians marched
> against Assyria.

******GK: The Scythians first appear in the Assyrian
records under Asarhaddon, I agree. Initially they are
enemies (Ishpakai). But King Partatua (Herodotus'
Protothyes) allied with Asarhaddon ca. 673 and was
even given a royal Assyrian princess to be his wife.
It is possible that she was the mother of Madyas. If
so the latter would have been a kind of cousin to
Assurbanipal. I'm unaware of a King Kashtiari. Could
you give me a source?*******

>
> Herodotus narrates that the Scythians descended from
> the slopes of
> the Caucasus, battled the Medes who were pressing on
> Nineveh, and,
> moving southward, reached Palestine.

*****GK: Correct.*****

Assyrian

> records confirm that
> Scythai were used in Ashurbanipal's attack on Egypt,
> and the sacking
> of Thebes.

******GK: Correct*****

>
> Chapters 4-6 of the young Jeremiah are generally
> regarded as
> expressing the fear of the people of Palestine at
> the approach of the
> Scythian hordes. The prophet spoke of the evil that
> would come down
> from the north and a great destruction (4:6), of
> whole cities that
> would "flee for the noise of the horsemen and
> bowmen" (4:29), of "a
> mighty nation . . . whose language thou knowest not"
> (5:15). "Behold,
> a people cometh from the north country, and a great
> nation shall be
> raised from the sides of the earth" (6:22).

******GK: Totally agree.******

>
> The Egyptian king, Psametik however, succeeded by
> persuasion in
> halting their advance toward Egypt. He, like the
> Scythians, was an
> ally of Assurbanipal. According to Herodotus,
> Psametik was besieging
> Beth Shean when the Scythians under king Madys
> reached that country,
> relieving the seige and settling around Beth Shean.

*****GK: I don't think these specifics are in
Herodotus. There is certainly nothing about Scythians
settling around Bethshean. What Herodotus mentions is
the plundering of the temple at Ashkelon.******

> The Jewish
> Septuagint, Josephus and Eusebius all call the town
> Scythopolis from
> this period.

******GK: I can't find any references to BethShean as
Scythopolis prior to the 3rd c. BC. That is the
century of the Septuagint, but Josephus is a 1rst and
Eusebius a 4th c. AD author.********

Byzantine Georgius Syncellus explained

> the name was due
> to the Scythians, who remained there from among the
> invading hordes
> in the days of Seti-meri-en-Ptah Men-maat-Re
> (Psametik).

******GK: Synkellos' theory is not backed up as far as
I know, by independent contemporary or near
contemporary evidence. I thus must maintain the view
that Scythopolis was named after mercenaries hired by
Ptolemy in the period when classical Scythia was
actively disintegrating and various groups of warriors
and their families were searching for better
fates.******


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