Re: [tied] Re: Germanic Scythians?

Torsten you wrote:

> > > I've waged several battles here in cybalist that Snorri's (and
> > > other's) account of an origin in the Pontic area should be taken
>
> as
> > > it stands. They

Who do you mean by "they"?

would then have been driven out by Pompey's

> > > campaigns
> > > in that area and settled in Thuringia,

Pompey campaigned in the Pontic? Is there Roman evidence of this?
where they mixed 50 years

>
> > > later with a massive influx of Bastarnian (thus Germanic)-
> speaking
> > > peoples driven out of Pannonia by Augustus' campaigns there, and

> > > picked up that language. From there they subjugated Germany and
> > > Scandinavia, until then Old-Germanic and Celtic speaking.

What does "Old-Germanic" refer to? And how would the language of "they"
(whoever you are saying were driven out of the Pontic) differ from that
of the people in Germany and Scandinavia you say they subjugated?

>
> Alvissm�l mentions
>
> http://www.beige.org/giltweasel/stuff/old_norse/alvissmal3.txt
> verse 16
>
> that "men call it 'sol' [that is the North Germanic word for sun],
> gods [ie. aesir, that is, the people that invaded Scandinavia at the
>
> time and brought inhumation burial with them] call it 'sunna' [that
> is the West Germanic word for sun]". Thus the Aesir spoke a West
> Germanic-like language.
>
> In other words (as I see it), the Aesir (= Alans?) were Iranian-
> speaking, moved to Saxland (ie. Thuringia), where they were known as
>
> Hermunduri, or "Tur-people", were joined with an lot of Batarnian
> (thus Germanic) speaking refugees 50 years later, picked up their
> Germanic creole, and under the pressure of the Roman conquest of the
>
> land between the Rhine and the Elbe (thus also Thuringia) moved
> first
> to Fyn in Denmark, then Sweden, where their Germanic creole replaced
>
> the Old Germanic of the area, apart from a few words ('sol' etc, and
>
> similar words particular to North Germanic today).

I'm confused here Torsten. You're saying that the Iranian-speaking
Aesir acquired a West-Germanic dialect from the Bastarnians and brought
their West-Germanic dialect to Scandinavia and Northern Germany? But
West-Germanic couldn't have replaced Northern Germanic in Scandinavia,
because the Norse didn't speak a West-Germanic language. Please explain,
that would be cool.

> I don't think he hints that, but I think it was the case. And
> Germanic came around 10 BCE.

What do you mean? Do you mean that Germanic existed somewhere in the
east before
coming to Northern and Western Europe? Or are you saying that Germanic
(or do you mean Germanic as we know it?) originated in
Germany/Scandinavia?
Where do you believe Germanic existed before 10 B.C. ?

> I think all of today's Germanic languages are descended from the
> language of the Bastarnians, a tribe which is attested in Poland
> around 150 BCE, but influenced (Germanic shift) by Iranian speech
> habits. As someone commented, they are always mentioned in
> connection
> with some other people.

Are you saying that at one time the Bastarnians were the only people
to speak Germanic, or that Germanic originated with them? What dialect
did they speak? It has also been argued that the Bastarnians were
originally Celtic-speakers, and I don't know of Germanic speach being
attested among them. So you're saying only the Bastarnians were
influenced by Iranian speech?

> Because the inhabitants of the land later known as Germania were
> Celts.

At what point would you say Germanic speakers entered what was later
known as Germania? And how would you connect this to the Negau helmet?

Torsten, what sources do you base all this on that I can look into?

-Michael

> Torsten
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

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