[tied] Re: Germanic Scythians?

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Michael J Smith <lookwhoscross-
eyednow@...> wrote:

> Torsten you wrote:
>
> > > > I've waged several battles here in cybalist that Snorri's

(and

> > > > other's) account of an origin in the Pontic area should be

taken

> >
> > as
> > > > it stands. They
>
> Who do you mean by "they"?
>
> would then have been driven out by Pompey's
> > > > campaigns
> > > > in that area and settled in Thuringia,
>
> Pompey campaigned in the Pontic? Is there Roman evidence of

this?
Appian: Mithridatica.

> where they mixed 50 years
> >
> > > > later with a massive influx of Bastarnian (thus Germanic)-
> > speaking
> > > > peoples driven out of Pannonia by Augustus' campaigns there,

and

>
> > > > picked up that language. From there they subjugated Germany

and

> > > > Scandinavia, until then Old-Germanic and Celtic speaking.
>
> What does "Old-Germanic" refer to?

See previous posting.

>And how would the language of "they"
> (whoever you are saying were driven out of the Pontic) differ from

that

> of the people in Germany and Scandinavia you say they subjugated?

At the time they left the Pontic area, they spoke Iranian or Indic.
They are the Aesir that Snorri refers to.

>
> >
> > Alvissmál mentions
> >
> > http://www.beige.org/giltweasel/stuff/old_norse/alvissmal3.txt
> > verse 16
> >
> > that "men call it 'sol' [that is the North Germanic word for

sun],

> > gods [ie. aesir, that is, the people that invaded Scandinavia at

the

> >
> > time and brought inhumation burial with them] call it 'sunna'

[that

> > is the West Germanic word for sun]". Thus the Aesir spoke a West
> > Germanic-like language.
> >
> > In other words (as I see it), the Aesir (= Alans?) were Iranian-
> > speaking, moved to Saxland (ie. Thuringia), where they were known

as

> >
> > Hermunduri, or "Tur-people", were joined with an lot of Batarnian
> > (thus Germanic) speaking refugees 50 years later, picked up their
> > Germanic creole, and under the pressure of the Roman conquest of

the

> >
> > land between the Rhine and the Elbe (thus also Thuringia) moved
> > first
> > to Fyn in Denmark, then Sweden, where their Germanic creole

replaced

> >
> > the Old Germanic of the area, apart from a few words ('sol' etc,

and

> >
> > similar words particular to North Germanic today).
>
> I'm confused here Torsten. You're saying that the Iranian-

speaking

> Aesir acquired a West-Germanic dialect from the Bastarnians and

brought

> their West-Germanic dialect to Scandinavia and Northern Germany?

But

> West-Germanic couldn't have replaced Northern Germanic in

Scandinavia,

> because the Norse didn't speak a West-Germanic language. Please

explain,

> that would be cool.

No´, "Tungrian" displaced "Old Germanic" in Scandinavia.

>
> > I don't think he hints that, but I think it was the case. And
> > Germanic came around 10 BCE.
>
> What do you mean? Do you mean that Germanic existed somewhere

in the

> east before
> coming to Northern and Western Europe? Or are you saying that

Germanic

> (or do you mean Germanic as we know it?) originated in
> Germany/Scandinavia?


> Where do you believe Germanic existed before 10 B.C. ?

In Scandinavia as "Old Germanic" and in Poland as Scirian and
Bastarnean.

>
> > I think all of today's Germanic languages are descended from the
> > language of the Bastarnians, a tribe which is attested in Poland
> > around 150 BCE, but influenced (Germanic shift) by Iranian speech
> > habits. As someone commented, they are always mentioned in
> > connection
> > with some other people.
>
> Are you saying that at one time the Bastarnians were the only

people

> to speak Germanic, or that Germanic originated with them? What

dialect

> did they speak? It has also been argued that the Bastarnians were
> originally Celtic-speakers, and I don't know of Germanic speach

being

> attested among them. So you're saying only the Bastarnians were
> influenced by Iranian speech?
>
> > Because the inhabitants of the land later known as Germania were
> > Celts.
>
> At what point would you say Germanic speakers entered what was later
> known as Germania? And how would you connect this to the Negau

helmet?

>
> Torsten, what sources do you base all this on that I can look into?
>
> -Michael
> > Torsten
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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