Re: "Will the 'real' linguist please stand up?"

--- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Juha Savolainen <juhavs@...> wrote:

>
> --- "tgpedersen <tgpedersen@...>" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> > --- In cybalist@yahoogroups.com, Piotr Gasiorowski
> > <piotr.gasiorowski@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: <tgpedersen@...>
> > > To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 11:20 AM
> > > Subject: [tied] Re: "Will the 'real' linguist
> > please stand up?"
> > >
> > >
> > > > *ts > *ks ? Do I see a finger on the weight
> > here?
> > >
> > > I should have written Iranian *ts --> FU *ks
> > (substitution, not
> > change). *ks was apparently a regular Finnic
> > substitute for the
> > Iranian affricate during that period.
> > >
> > > Piotr
> >
> > Apparently? If the issue is whether k was on its way
> > to
> > satem, 'apparently' is does not quite count as
> > evidence.
> >
> > Torsten
> >
> >
> >
>

> In case somebody is interested, this is Jorma Koivulehto´s view

("The Earliest Contacts between IE and Uralic Speakers in the Light
of Lexical Loans", "Uralics and Indo-Europeans: Problems of Time and
Space, in Christian Carpelan, Asko Parpola and Petteri Koskikallio
(eds.), Early contacts between Uralic and Indo-European: Linguistic
and archaeological considerations". (Mémoires de la Société Finno-
Ougrienne, 242.) Helsinki: Finno-Ugrian Society, 2001):

>
>
> "In the earlier layer the substitute was FU ks, which in the

initial position was replaced by s – according to the general rule,
which prohibits initial consonant clusters and means that in loans
only the last consonant of a cluster of the source is replaced. This
substitution was due to the fact that the Finno-Ugric did not possess
a corresponding dental, non-palatalized ("sharp") affricate *c [ts]
and a two-phoneme cluster –ts- was unknown, too. – Note that the
present cluster Finn. – ts- (<Late Proto-Finnic –tts-) goes back to
the Pre-Finnic geminated palatalised affricate -ºº -. – So the
phonotactically impossible cluster –ts- was replaced by the existing
cluster –ks-…"

>
> Regards, Juha Savolainen
>
>
>
>
>

Still no proof. Not even 'apparently' this time.

Torsten