Re: [tied] More nonsense: Is English /d/ truely voiced?

From: Glen Gordon
Message: 19077
Date: 2003-02-23

Patrick:
>A final voiced stop in English has the second voicing only in
>emphatic speech. Normally, "cad" is [k-h-a-V-t]. Thus, in final
>position has "partial" voicing.

Alright, and I would guess such environments would be likely to
have this "partial", or even absence of, voicing. With me,
I think a reasonable transcription of my pronunciation of
"cat" and "cad" would be [kHa.t] and [kHa?]. So just the slight
vowel length difference alone could be the cue for the perceived
voicing here without there being any true voicing. I can accept
this.

However, Miguel's claim of voicelessness in even initial
position is really pushing the limit. Patrick has a point.
I agree with him that voicing occurs BEFORE release of /d-/,
even if it is just before. And I can tell the difference
between a voiceless initial /d/ (as in Mandarin) and a
voiced, even if it is "partially", voiced /d/, in English.

As for medial position, there ain't NO way that I'm pronouncing
medial voiced stops without voice. That's just a total fib. In
fact, I have even caught myself being lazy, voicing voiceless
medial stops as well. I know that, at least in the case of
"metal" and "medal", I *do* voice both so that they are
completely homophonous. In a word like "hundred", it's more
taxing to restrict one's voice for a "voiceless" /d/. What
Miguel is saying is absurd.

Voicing is overall still *the* (yes, *the*) important quality
that seperates /t/ and /d/ for most English speakers.


Patrick:
>My understanding [...] was the final French voiced stop was
>"fully" voiced, [...]

The voicing onset is earlier for French /d/ and the tip of
the tongue is placed before the teeth. It is dental, not
alveolar.


- gLeN


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