Re: [tied] Re: good dictionary

From: alexmoeller@...
Message: 17236
Date: 2002-12-19

gs001ns@... wrote:
> alexmoeller wrote:
>> [a+tare] = new construction in the "culte romanian". Excuse-me,
>> but you will never hear a peasant speaking "ca atare" and I doubt
>> they
> Which they? *a* peasant isn't *they*.
>> [k]now this meaning. It seems this new construction (nowhere
>> in Coressi or in the old literar testimonies). I guess it is
>> pretty very recent .
> OK, let's assume it's a modern construction. But then keep
> asking yourself: how come that one has chosen "tare" to put it
> together with the particle "a-" in order to get "atare" with
> the meaning I mentioned before? Why on earth "tare" and not
> a different word?

>>> Moreover, "tare", at least in
>>> some regions of Romania, also has the meaning "some;
>> yes, I am avare of these meanings.
> But, as I expected, you ain't aware of the meaning above
> ("ceva, oarece, cativa/cateva": "Ti-oi da tare explicatie"
> or "explicatii" etc.) As such, this word is used by
> illiterate peasants in certain Romanian speaking regions.

certain regions = which region? I never heard such an expresion like
"ti-oi da tare explicatie". You know , I am very willing to learn , so
please tell me in which region. How I said, such a synonim "tare"=
"much" or "some", I never heard about.

> So, even if it were a mere phonetic coincidence, this
> is an evidence that "tare" cannot be limited to "hard,
> stiff, strong & mighty", it is also to be put in connection
> with "talis".

No. Latin "talis" has so much to do with romanian "tare" as much latin
"talpa" with romanian "talpa" has to do.

> Anyway, thousand times a closer connection
> than that with your "duerr, doerr, Duerre" (in Romanian,
> nobody will think of dryness and drought whenever hearing the
> word "tare").

the earth is dry= "pamantul este tare". "noroiu-l s-a intarit". Excuse
me Sir, but it seems you are a bit counfunding . OK, take please a look
at the latin "talis"
Cf my dictionary is a compoused word from *to and "-alis" like the form
"qu-alis". The meaning of this composition is given as fallows:

1) derartig, so beschaffen,solch, so; si quis est talis, qualis esse
omnis oportebat so... "wie"; selten mit accusativ; es folgt "ut"(qui)
mit conjuctivus. ; tali modo, tale nihil, si quid tale
2) a- occitan: folgend: talia fatur; b-so gut, tüchtig, vorzüglich. vir,
virtus c- so schlecht: facinus

For people who do not understand so well german I will try to translate
it in english. If I make mistakes, please correct me:
1) of such kind, so made, such, so; si quis est talis, qualis esse omnis
oportebat so... "how"; rare with accusativ; it fallows "ut" (qui) with
connjuctivus; tali modo , tale nihil, si quid tale
2) a- occitan: as following: talia fatur; b- so well, able(clever,
inteligent), especially. vir, virtus; c- so bad: facinus.

Sir, it seems there is _no_ sense in the "talis" which by far could mean
"hard". The composition is used as in every langauge today with "so xxx"
making a comparative in the most cases. There is n o t h i n g which
will allows you to put this word in the same family with the another
latin names as :torrere, toridus, terra.

As for your romanian "a+tare"= atare is given by DEX from latin
"eccum-tallem". The construction "eccum-tallem" doesnt seems to make to
much sense in latin but we have here people which are maybe very skilled
in latin for giving thier meaning.
lat eccum= there, look there, look!. In familiar way of speaking the
form "ecce-re"= look, indeed, truly.
this "eccum" of Puscariu shoudl make a "look there such a ??? " ."talis"
by itself cannot be in accusativ, I guess, no wonder there is no
"talem" but a talis.

All your nice text here turns around of a word which doesnt belong to
the PIE *ters and has nothing to do with romanian "tare". If I am wrong,
then there will be enough people to tell me :"alex you are wrong. Latin
"talis" belong to PIE *ters"