Re: good dictionary

From: tolgs001
Message: 17225
Date: 2002-12-19

alexmoeller wrote:

>[a+tare] = new construction in the "culte romanian". Excuse-me,
>but you will never hear a peasant speaking "ca atare" and I doubt

Which they? *a* peasant isn't *they*.

>[k]now this meaning. It seems this new construction (nowhere
>in Coressi or in the old literar testimonies). I guess it is
>pretty very recent .

OK, let's assume it's a modern construction. But then keep
asking yourself: how come that one has chosen "tare" to put it
together with the particle "a-" in order to get "atare" with
the meaning I mentioned before? Why on earth "tare" and not
a different word?

>>Moreover, "tare", at least in
>>some regions of Romania, also has the meaning "some;
>yes, I am avare of these meanings.

But, as I expected, you ain't aware of the meaning above
("ceva, oarece, cativa/cateva": "Ti-oi da tare explicatie"
or "explicatii" etc.) As such, this word is used by
illiterate peasants in certain Romanian speaking regions.
So, even if it were a mere phonetic coincidence, this
is an evidence that "tare" cannot be limited to "hard,
stiff, strong & mighty", it is also to be put in connection
with "talis". Anyway, thousand times a closer connection
than that with your "duerr, doerr, Duerre" (in Romanian,
nobody will think of dryness and drought whenever hearing the
word "tare"). The mere fact that "duerr" looks similar
shouldn't automatically prompt your growing convinced
it's the same word. After all, "dur(us, etc.)" is much
closer to "tare" (semantically & phonetically) than Ger.
"duerr, doerr". So, if you explain to a peasant
in your reagion that the Mediterranean kind of wheat
"grano duro" is "grĂ¢u tare", he'll understand, although
grano duro is quite unknown to a Romanian if s/he has no
special knwoledge in agriculture.

>Even in german language is the use of
>"hard" in the same sense as romanian:
>"er hat hard geschlagen"," er hat stark geschlagen".
>I guess is OK with the meaning.

Not quite. In German, that means the punch/blow is
"hart". In Romanian, combining the words for punch/blow
with "tare" is not as natural as it is in German. In
Romanian, you'll tend to use it rather as an adverb.
E.g. translating "harter Schlag" by "lovitura tare"
will be clumsy. You'll rather say "lovitura puternica".
Even in a slangy way of talking you'll rather adverbialize:
"dau tare!" ("I('m) hit(ting) hard! Ich schlage hart zu!"
But even in this case, in Romanian it is not as clearly
cut: one doesn't know whether I want to say: "I'm gonna
fight fiercely" or "my jabs and uppercuts will hit you
that you'll thing you had an encounter with a sledge
hammer." In other terms: whether the meaning "hard" is
stressed or merely the meaning "very".)