Re: again gW>b and Getae

From: tolgs001
Message: 16779
Date: 2002-11-16

alexmoeller wrote:

>if the groups kW and gW have in the same language separate
>evolution kinda kw>k and gW>b then it seems the big
>clasification centum/satem is not working properly or there
>must be other explanation. Not only Vinereanu said that but
>Cicerone Poghirc too.

But for what reason is it assumed that the "-p-" in
the topo-/hydronyms you mention had been "kw" in
earliar times?

I. Russu, in his consonantic scheme for IE > Thracian,
says that kw > k and gw(h) > g [page 150, if you have the
1967 edition at hand]. I don't see any kw > p & gw > b.
Nor do I see him contradict his predecessors (Pokorny
& al.) in these basic deductions. I might be wrong but
I guesstimate that Poghirc didn't have opposite opinions

Let me pick up only one of your examples: Napoca (a.k.a.
Nápouka in Ptolemaios' Geographia III, 8, 4).

Tomaschek ("Thr." II, 2, 68) compared it with Náparis
(in Moesia Inferior, perhaps the old name of today's
Ialomitza in S-E Romania) and with the Greek word "nápos"
(valley with forest). He assumed -ok, -uk as being suffixes.
Detchev compared Napoca with Náparis too. Russu thought
Napoca and Náparis could have had the radix IE *sna-p-
(humidity). Duridanov compared Náparis with Baltic
hydronyms Namperyn (lake), Nampern (brook)& Nampirn
(actually Naupirn), a toponym; and with the Rumanian
word "pârâu/parâu/[p&r&u]" (these are subdialectal
varians; the first is also the standard word).
Apud Duridanov, < IE *(s)nau- (triefen, fliessen;
approx.: moist, running). Hence, he assumed Naparis
< *Navaparis < *snaua-poris. But he saw no link to
Napoca. (BTW: Napoca is today's Cluj /kluZ/, in
Transylvania; in Hungarian Kolozsvár, in German

(I cited the above from a paper of somebody whose
"Doktorvater" was Mr Poghirc who, as such, put his
"doc-father" okay on it. :)

So, where's the beef? Or is the assumption kw > p
connected with the other one -p- in those names only
due to the fact that some of them contain, in a way
or another, the idea "pond", "running water" and

George Stana