> -----Original Message-----
> From: alexmoeller@... [mailto:alexmoeller@...]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 5:30 PM
> To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [tied] Re: Celery
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Wordingham" <richard.wordingham@...>
> To: <cybalist@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 2002 11:54 AM
> Subject: [tied] Re: Celery
>
> > I doubt about the presence of /ð/ in Dacian. Neither Russu,
> nor
> > Poghirc now Wald mention something about it. What examples
> you have
> > for it? The same stands for [þ].
>
> [Moeller] The problem is, even if Dacian have had [þ]. the
> Greek or Romans could not write it, they have had use the
> letter they thought it will be "most appropriate" to what they
> heard.
The Greeks eventually had theta. In early Classical Greek, it represented
the sound [th], which then became [þ]. In Latin, <th> could be used for
either sound.
> I can't find any decent list of Dacian vocabulary!
> [Moeller]
> Do not be angry:-) Where you will like to find it? I can help
> just with some anthroponyms, the plant names, the toponyms
> and hydronyms. But a lot of anthroponyms I have no idea
> where to get them from in the original form. It seems there
> are just 2 big people who did a "selection work" of Thracian
> and Dacian names. And these are Tomschek and Decev.
Public-spirited souls have compiled lists of Thracian words and put them on
the Internet. If I must use a hard-copy source for Dacian, I can request,
and probably wait a month or more. However, I would probably be struggling
with the language of the book.
> [Moeller]
> <Snip> If I will assume Romanian substrate is
> made from Dacian words, I have to show first that so is this.
I received a list of alleged 'substrate' words in message
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/15424 . However, it is of
very little use to me without a translation of the words into English. On
the subject of the Romanian language, the bookshops and public libraries of
Watford can only offer a combined phrasebook and tape cassette. If you know
a web dictionary, that might do the job, but I fear the words may be too
obscure for it.
On the bright side, the public library does have an Albanian-English
dictionary.
*If* we can trace the 'substrate' words back to PIE, we may be able to work
out where they have come from by the sound changes they have undergone.
However, I do wonder why we should regard them as 'substrate' words. About
20% (I thought it was even more) of English words cannot be traced back
beyond Old English, particularly 'expressive' words. such words have almost
certainly be coined within English, probably in accordance with the
principles of 'phonosemantics'.
We ought to be able to distinguish Dacian and Thracian. Whether we can
distinguish Dacian and Albanian is another matter. The problem would arise
if Albanian has lost the word. Piotr was not aware of any evidence that
would show that Albanian did not descend from Dacian.
> [Moeller] I wonder if in French are too examples like in
> Romanian ( *gwisti>substrate_language *ge$ti>rom. desht which
> is not Latin digitus> rom. deget even if very alike..
The Celtic substrate in French is very small. And it should be more
recognisable, for we still have the Celtic languages.
Richard..
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