From: alexmoeller@...
Message: 15581
Date: 2002-09-18
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wordingham, Richard" <richard.wordingham@...>
> I can't find any decent list of Dacian vocabulary!
> [Moeller]
> Do not be angry:-) Where you will like to find it? I can
help
> just with some anthroponyms, the plant names, the toponyms
> and hydronyms. But a lot of anthroponyms I have no idea
> where to get them from in the original form. It seems there
> are just 2 big people who did a "selection work" of Thracian
> and Dacian names. And these are Tomschek and Decev.
Public-spirited souls have compiled lists of Thracian words
and put them on
the Internet. If I must use a hard-copy source for Dacian, I
can request,
and probably wait a month or more. However, I would probably
be struggling
with the language of the book.
[Moeller] the book of Tomaschek is in german, but I have no
ideea if this was translated in english. Russu's book is in
romanian ( maybe a french translation somewhere?) and so far I
know, Decev, Georgiev and Duridanov, have soem translation in
german too.
> [Moeller]
> <Snip> If I will assume Romanian substrate is
> made from Dacian words, I have to show first that so is
this.
I received a list of alleged 'substrate' words in message
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cybalist/message/15424 .
However, it is of
very little use to me without a translation of the words into
English. On
the subject of the Romanian language, the bookshops and public
libraries of
Watford can only offer a combined phrasebook and tape
cassette. If you know
a web dictionary, that might do the job, but I fear the words
may be too
obscure for it.
[Moeller] I cand work on weekend over the list to give you the
english corepondance.. I hope you get me a reminder over 2
days to do not forget about it and I will translate it and put
them here on the lsit for not having surprises thath I
translated them wrong or maybe in a "malicious" way:-)
On the bright side, the public library does have an
Albanian-English
dictionary.
*If* we can trace the 'substrate' words back to PIE, we may be
able to work
out where they have come from by the sound changes they have
undergone.
However, I do wonder why we should regard them as 'substrate'
words. About
20% (I thought it was even more) of English words cannot be
traced back
beyond Old English, particularly 'expressive' words. such
words have almost
certainly be coined within English, probably in accordance
with the
principles of 'phonosemantics'.
[Moeller]
just as a matter of fact. Over the thumb, how many words with
unknown etymologya you have in english? I will translate only
the words given by Russu , words which are acceptated by all
the linguist as beeing from substrate. Less as 5% of all which
are in the rom. language IMHO.
We ought to be able to distinguish Dacian and Thracian.
Whether we can
distinguish Dacian and Albanian is another matter. The
problem would arise
if Albanian has lost the word. Piotr was not aware of any
evidence that
would show that Albanian did not descend from Dacian.
[Moeller] I am not sure id Georgiev is right here that the
thracian was a different language as thracian. And I do give
more credit to strabo as to Georgiev. At least strabo was
contemporan with them and not a model-maker like Georgiev.
> [Moeller] I wonder if in French are too examples like in
> Romanian ( *gwisti>substrate_language *ge$ti>rom. desht
which
> is not Latin digitus> rom. deget even if very alike..
The Celtic substrate in French is very small. And it should
be more
recognisable, for we still have the Celtic languages.
Richard..
[Moeller]
I am not able to speak about the substratum of other languages
because I have no ideea about Even if i read some things about
romanian-albanian similarities, I still do not know if
albanian has too a substrate-strate-adstrate construction, and
if , then in which segment of the language of albanians are to
be fixed the words which are similar with the romanians
wordsm, even if should maybe easy to say, ok this is
substratum too:-))