Re: just verifying a point

From: George S t a n a
Message: 14997
Date: 2002-09-03

Alex wrote:

>Mâtsa zãpãcitã de aburul zorilor ce se aburcã pe tzurloaiele
>gardului,se rezeamã de buza scorburii bradului, miaunã încet
>si zgâriind un pic scoartza picata de pe prisacã, s-ar baga si
>in borta shobolanului pentru un pic de brânza"
>"Petecul de panza de la gâtul copilei ce aburca zgribulita
>pe poteca ce se rostogolea printre stânci."

These are a bit artificially made sentences. But, OTOH, made of
common words. Either assumed to be derivations of from
the ancient Dacian or Thracian vocabulary. Or with uncertain
or unknown etymology. All this wording is seen by Mr Vinereanu
& al. as being __exclusively__ "autochtonous", i.e. either from
Dacian or Thracian -- without any mediation by a third idiom.

But this is the opinion of few people. Romanian "mainstream"
linguists have proposed different explanations in numerous cases.
And they've been very cautious -- rather avoiding any etym.
explanation in popular dictionaries than adding unsubstantiated,
unconvincing concoctions.

"mâtza" /m1tsa/ is said to be onomatopoeic for "cat" ("pisica").
And there is a German equivalent for this: "Miezekatze" and

"abur" (with Albanian equivalent) cf. Lat. "vapor"

"zapacit" could be a derivation from "zvapait" and "zvanturat",
the former probably < vapaie (cf. Alb. vape /vap@/), the
latter probably < vânt (wind). (meaning here: confused, at
a loss)

"zori" cf. old Slavic "zorja"; (R. "morning, dawn")

"aburcare" < vulgo-Lat. *oricare < Lat. oriri + pref. ab-
“scorbura” < Lat. scrobis via Lat. *scrobula (perhaps akin to
"to carve" and IE *(s)ker-)

“mieuna, mieunare” (to mew); from R. "miau!"

“încet” (slow/ly; quiet, low-voiced) < Lat. in+qu(i)etus

“zgâria” a possible < Lat. *scaberare (or *ex-corriare?)

“un pic” cf. Ital. “un poco” (pocco?)

“scoartza” < Lat. scortea (as a family name, Scortzea)

“picat” (fallen), assumed as onomatopoeic, since “pic! pic!”
for droplets (of any liquid); “picatura” /pic@.../ = droplet
(possible that “un pic” also derivative thereof)

“prisaca” /prisak@/ is meant to be the “bee-hive”, but it is
the wrong word, since “prisaca” means the *place* where
apiculture is practised; Romanian dictionaries say “compare
with Ukrainian “pasika”.

“baga, bagare” /b@.../ (to poke, to introduce sth. or one-
self into; to put into), unknown etym.

“borta” official dictionaries say “compare with Ukrainian

“sobolan” /$obolan/ (rat); the same dict. say “compare with
‘sobol’ < Bulg. soboletz, Russ. sobol”

“petec” or “petic”, plural “petece”/”petice” /-tSe/ is any

“pânza” /p1nz@/ (linen cloth; cobweb; (liquid) layer)

“gât” (neck; throat) comparable with old Slavic glUtU, with
Lat. glutinare; & guttur-.

“zgribulit” (trembling curled (up) as being cold or frightened)
< “zburlit/zbârlit”? (of hair, fur: staying “unkempt” either outa
fear/wrath or... being disheveled)

“poteca” (path); R. dictionaries: “compare with Bulg. pyteka”

“rostogol/ire” (roll/ing) maybe < “rotocol” (sth. with a shape
of a ring, disc) < “roata” + “ocol” (in which “ocol/ire” is of
Slavic origin; in Rumanian with the main meaning “to move
around sth.; circulary movement; by-pass”)

“stânc㔠/st1nc@/, plural “stânci” /st1ntS/ (big rock, block,
boulder; esp. plural cliff/s); uncertain etym., but quite transparent
though, since there are these related words “stean, stei, stanã“
(seemingly Slavic loanwords), all meaning blocks of
rocks (or minerals, incl. salt) & boulders).


(subst.) “reazem”, (vb.) “rezema/rãzima, rezemare/rãzimare”
(to lean against; to prop up, support, buttress), according to
Rum. linguists (such as Ioan I. Russu), < Rum. *re(d)zem-
< IE *reg^-; akin to Lat. rego, regimen; German „(sich) recken);
Greek „’oréGo” ..., showing the typical satem feature g’ > z.

Noteworthy that in certain subdialectal Romanian, the pronunciation
in numerous words /dz/ instead of /z/ is valid up to day. E.g.,
„buna dziua/dzîua” /dz1-wa/ for „buna ziua/zîua"; "Dumnedzeu,
Dumnedzau" /-dz@.../ for "Dumnezeu, Dumnezau" /-zeu, -z@.../.