Re: [tied] just verifying a point

From: Piotr Gasiorowski
Message: 14965
Date: 2002-09-02

----- Original Message -----
From: alexmoeller@...
Sent: Monday, September 02, 2002 7:29 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] just verifying a point

[Moeller] You dont like to see a fact. You have as fallow:
a celtic teonim =Epona= godess of horses
a thracian Antroponim = Eppo, meaning (?)
I again must ask you to show me where a _Thracian_ name like Eppo is attested. Thracian, not Pannonian.
> ... How you see romanian did not made this "v" ="b" so quick as in another romanic languages. That shouls sound curious for a linguist. But like allways, such things can be ignorated too.Have you ever took a look how many words in romanian begina with "b"? Let us put there and the words prefixed with "a" before "b" and you will wonder how much there are. Please, do not make me to look in dictionary how many are, I am crazy enough to take page with page for counting them:-))
I was talking about _Thracian_, not _Romanian_! The may be the same in your mind, but please stop confusing them in this thread. All I'm saying is that there are convincing examples of PIE *w > Thracian b [v].
> [Moeller] Vinerean :"short vowel *e" for ek^Wos:
> PIE *ek'uus, ek'ua>proto-troco-dacian *epa>traco-daca *iepa>romanian >iapa. This is the explanation of Mr Vinerean.
Which is a crazy kind of explanation: notum per ignotum, precisely the type of case where Occam's razor must be applied. The standard derivation from Lat. equa works impeccably and does not require any "traco-daca" conjuring tricks involving sound changes known only to Mr. Vinereanu.
> You will observe thata iapa in plural form in rumanian is iepe the same "ie" there if you will ask you why from *epa>"iepa"
So what? Well-known phonetic changes in Old Romanian account for these vowels. There's nothing mysterious about them -- nothing that would justify invoking substrate influence.
> I repeat myself. why is thracian a satem language? Give me please the characteristics which make of thracian a satem language. Which are they?
Amongst those that you report as Vinereanu's sound changes, *g^ > z and *g^H > z are characteristic Satem developments. You don't say (or maybe Vinereany doesn't say) what happened to *k^, but one would expect something more-or-less parallel to *g^ > z, most likely *k^ > s or *k^ > ts. (the symbol <^>, which we use on Cybalist, is equivalent to your <'>).

> One of salapia was in Scythia Minor Piotr. I wait for exact references where to find about. So far I got them you will be the first who get them from me.
It seems to me you are confusing different placenames. I repeat that the only Salapia I know of is Salpi in Italy -- probably a Messapic name, but definitely not Thracian or Dacian. Given the irresponsibity with which you cite hearsay stuff, I have little doubt that your Romanian "Salapia" is a figment.