Re: [tied] Re: IRMIN

From: Piotr Gasiorowski
Message: 13375
Date: 2002-04-19

Ellipsis (for the sake of economy and convenience) is justifiable in such cases. An asterisked form _also_ represents a set of systematic correspondences. We routinely say, e.g., that the PIE root *bHendH- is attested in Germanic, meaning actually not even PGmc. *bind- but the whole set of its ultimate descendants like Eng. bind, etc. in the individual languages. The actual forms can easily be enumerated if need be. The presence of the Alani (Roxolani, Iazyges, ...) among the Germani is known well enough, and a few "Sarmatian" etymologies have been proposed for Germanic words (<path> is a very convincing one); however, *xarja-mann- (don't ignore the double *-nn-; it's important in this case!) stands "without competition" simply because the etymology is straightforward, self-explanatory and without any formal problems. The second element is declined just like the root noun *mann- (e.g. OE heremenn glossing 'milites'), so why should it be anything else? There is no need to introduce an alternative Iranian etymology which is in all respects inferior to a native one, being neither self-explanatory, nor elegant on the formal side; as far as I can see the only motivation for it is someone's wishful thinking.
 
Piotr
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From: tgpedersen
To: cybalist@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 1:52 PM
Subject: [tied] Re: IRMIN

I do, actually. One of the things I remember that they taught me is that non-attested forms are marked with an asterisk, wherefore your elliptic expression (I assume you mean that presumed _descendants_ of non-attested *xarja-man- are attested, which is not quite what you wrote) confused me. But *xarja-man- as ancestor of <heremann-> etc stands without competition, exactly because no linguist would consider Iranic as a source of loanwords since most don't seem to be aware (I certainly wasn't and apparently neither were you?) of the presence of the Alani among the Germani in the migration period.