Re: Odin and Zalmoxes - same religion?

--- In cybalist@..., "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:

> --- In cybalist@..., "tgpedersen" <tgpedersen@...> wrote:
> >
> > Jordanes:
> > "
> > (38) We read that on their first migration the Goths dwelt in the
> > land of Scythia near Lake Maeotis. On the second migration they
> went
> > to Moesia, Thrace and Dacia, and after their third they dwelt

again

> > in Scythia, above the Sea of Pontus. Nor do we find anywhere in
> their
> > written records legends which tell of their subjection to slavery
> in
> > Britain or in some other island, or of their redemption by a
> certain
> > man at the cost of a single horse. Of course if anyone in our

city

> > says that the Goths had an origin different from that I have
> related,
> > let him object. For myself, I prefer to believe what I have read,
> > rather than put trust in old wives' tales. (39) To return, then,

to

> > my subject. The aforesaid race of which I speak is known to have
> had
> > Filimer as king while they remained in their first home in

Scythia

> > near Maeotis. In their second home, that is in the countries of
> > Dacia, Thrace and Moesia, Zalmoxes reigned, whom many writers of
> > annals mention as a man of remarkable learning in philosophy. Yet
> > even before this they had a learned man Zeuta, and after him
> > Dicineus; and the third was Zalmoxes of whom I have made mention
> > above. Nor did they lack teachers of wisdom. (40) Wherefore the
> Goths
> > have ever been wiser than other barbarians and were nearly like

the

> > Greeks, as Dio relates, who wrote their history and annals with a
> > Greek pen. He says that those of noble birth among them, from

whom

> > their kings and priests were appointed, were called first
> > Tarabostesei and then Pilleati.
> > "
> >
> > I foud "pileus" somewhere as a Thracian word meaning "old man".
> >
> > Detschew on
> > Zalmoxis, Zalimoxis, Salmoxis, Zamolxis, main god of the Getae
> >
> > refers to <zalmos> "protection", cognate with Gothic
> hilms "helmet",
> > OHG helm, AS helm also "protector" and relate -ks- to Avestan
> xs^iya-
> > "ruler, king", found also in names of Scythian kings. Thus "king-
> > protector".
> > But then I wondered: hm! is Odin involved in this? Is he a high
> priest
> > of the same tradition? One of his epithets is <Hjalmberi> "helmet-
> > carrier"
> >
> > Torsten
>
> But Latin <pileus> is a felt hat, such as worn by freed slaves (so

it

> might be non-Latin in origin?). As Tacitus testifies, most Germani
> had no helmet, so a helmet (or whatever headgear, note the strange
> pointed non-functional helmets [thus semi-hat and semi-helmet]

found

> in Scythian royal graves) would distinguish its bearer from his
> surroundings. Is this what we know as the pointed hat (the symbol

of

> the "first mound" after the flood, cf. the Hittite relief showing a
> man standing on two cones (mountains) while wearing a third cone
> (pointed hat), it all making up a trinity of mountains) of the

Magus

> that their priests were wearing?

at:
http://courses.unc.edu/clar047/YazAMainDr.jpg

>
> Torsten

As for the other name of the ruling class, Detschew has

"
Tarabostesei (various MSS: tarabostereos, zarabostereos, strabotes
eos, thorabostes eos) "die hochstangesehenen dakischen Edelinge"

W. Tomaschek. Die alten Thraker, Sitzber. Akad. Wien, Bd 130 (1893),
II Sprachreste, 1, 20-21 is reminded of the <pilopHoroi Armenoi> AP
9, 430, 2 and the Macedonian hat, hood [Kopfbedeckung] <kausia>. He
thinks that Jordanes in <tara-> sees <tiara> "pileus", ie. the
Persian pilos tiaras, Herododus 3, 12, which Hesychius [see tie:re:
(s)] explains with "oxus". The second element <bast-> might be
connected to Avestan <basta-> "ligatus" from the IE root *bHendH-
"bind". Since in Thracian k' also becomes T (in Greek rendered by tH
or t), <tara> might be connected with IE *k'&ro- "head" and thus
<tara-bost-> interpreted as "head-band, -strap" [Kopfbinde].
"

So, another hat-connection.

One shouldn't forget the pointed bishop's hat, more commonly known as
the mitre, comes from Mithra. And in depictions of Mithra killing the
bull, he has the same pointed felt hat. This hat is also seen on the
heads of the Aesir in the few "contemporary" pictures we have of them
from Scandinavia (of Njord, Loki and Thor). This hat then became the
mark of the uneducated, surfacing again as the Phrygian cap of the
French revolution. By the latest redesign of Santa Claus, a campaign
by Coca-Cola in the thirties, the campaign artist, who was of Swedish
stock, gave Santa the look of the Swedish <tomte>, who is originally
the spirit of a homestead (<tomt> Sw. "plot of land" Da. "derelict
house"), and that's probably from where he got his red hat (the
Danish <nisse> also has this red hat).

Torsten