Correction Re: Muspellsheim

From: tgpedersen@...
Message: 11201
Date: 2001-11-17

--- In cybalist@..., malmqvist52@... wrote:
> --- In cybalist@..., tgpedersen@... wrote:
> > --- In cybalist@..., malmqvist52@... wrote:
> > > Hi> But isn't there an i> u transition (way back in time
> perhaps )
> > > in e.
> > > > g. G. sieden E. seethe > Sv. sjuda?
> > > >
> > > I suppose I really mean the other way around here i. e. u > i
> > > Anders
> >
> > This is not really a transition. PIE -eu- > German -iu- > -ie-, >
> > North Germanic > -ju- (Old Norse -jo-) (written on memory alone!
> > cave!)
> Are You absolutely sure the word really has an IE etymology?
>
> Bjorwand and Lindeman in Våre Arveord seem a little unsure but want
> to propose that Germ. *séu[th]an perhaps belongs to IE *sew- " to
> press" with a t-extension (cp Old Iric glssar word suth "milk" <
*su-
> tu ?)
> "Man "presser" sydende/boblende vaeske ut av av kjöttet når det
> tilberedes over ilden."
>
> One presses seething/bubbling fluid out from the meat when it's
> prepared over the fire.
>
> Personally I find this explanation a little farfetched. At least it
> seems very unsure.
>
> I have my own theory about this word. ie.
> that it related to the hebrew zijd/sood which means
>
> ") to boil, boil up, seethe, act proudly, act presumptuously, act
> rebelliously, be presumptuous, be arrogant, be rebelliously proud
> 1a) (Qal)
> 1a1) to act presumptuously
> 1a2) to deal arrogantly (with 'al')
> 1a3) to defy proudly (with 'el')
> 1b) (Hiphil)
> 1b1) to boil, seethe, act proudly
> 1b2) to act presumptuously, act insolently"
>
> http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/strongs/1006028072.html
>
> here also:
> "02102 zuwd {zood} or (by permutation) ziyd {zeed}"
>
> I guess this was what I meant when talking of a transition way back
> in time.
>
> Now You can kill me.
> Anders

Nah, I'll let you go this time. Actually I've said worse things than
that. Check out

http://www.angelfire.com/rant/tgpedersen/austric.html

I'm a great fan of Herman Møller, a Danish linguist who wrote such
books as "Semitisches und Indogermanisches". I recall "seethe"(*s-wd-)
vs. "sweat"(*sw-d-) as one of his entries (originally a difference in
stress connected with a causative ("seethe" is thus "make sweat"), so
he must have found a Semitic equivalent for it.
So he believes the word is of Pre-IndoEuropean-AfroAsiatic origin.
Personally I suspect the words he found are loaned from further east.
Try and find him at your nearest linguistic institution. It might be
hard though. His books are from the first decades of the 20th century.

Torsten