Great to see Cybalist back up.
It seems that the messages got stuck at 11111. I wonder whether this
is not due to a computing glitch with Yahoo reading 11111 as a "stop
posts" message. But then I would not have enough computing skills to
know where to start.
On the 15th November I posted to PIEML the following. I echo it here
for all who did not see it. The effects of climate on language
distribution (via the effects on generating agrarian surpluses and
hence local population increases and also in stimulating subsequent
migrations) has become somewhat of an interest of mine, especially
since people have spoken of PIE extending back into Mesolithic
Eurasia. I have a (very new) list server
CreationAndCollapse@....
On the old Cybalist there has been much discussion about the effects
of the Black Sea flood upon the languages of the area of the circum
Euxine region. Stories of Deluge and the development of religious
systems seem to be associated too with the latest report (see
attached). Interesting stuff.
Anyone for ideas on what effect the last one has had on development of
Indo-European Languages in Historic Times. A nuclear winter of the
type proposed would have driven cultures inhabiting the Ukraine
Steppes to seek warmer climes to the South. Could this be linked to
the arrival of Anatolian languages in the Middle East, and the
subsequent spread of Indo-Aryans in the Middle-Late Bronze Age?
Regards
John
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/space/20011113/sc/comets_meteors_myth_new
_evidence_\for_toppled_civilizations_and_biblical_tales_1.html
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/space/20011113/sc/comets_meteors_myth_new
_evidence_\for_toppled_civilizations_and_biblical_tales_1.html
Comets, Meteors & Myth: New Evidence for Toppled Civilizations and
Biblical Tales
By Robert Roy Britt
Senior Science Writer, SPACE.com
"...and the seven judges of hell ... raised their torches, lighting
the land with their livid flame. A stupor of despair went up to heaven
when the god of the storm turned daylight into darkness, when he
smashed the land like a cup."
-- An account of the Deluge from the Epic of Gilgamesh, circa 2200
B.C.
If you are fortunate enough to see the storm of shooting stars
predicted for the Nov. 18 peak of the Leonid meteor shower, you'll be
watching a similar but considerably less powerful version of events
which some scientists say brought down the world's first
civilizations.
The root of both: debris from a disintegrating comet.
Biblical stories, apocalyptic visions, ancient art and scientific data
all seem to intersect at around 2350 B.C., when one or more
catastrophic events wiped out several advanced societies in Europe,
Asia and Africa.
Increasingly, some scientists suspect comets and their associated
meteor storms were the cause. History and culture provide clues: Icons
and myths surrounding the alleged cataclysms persist in cults and
religions today and even fuel terrorism.
And a newly found 2-mile-wide crater in Iraq, spotted serendipitously
in a perusal of satellite images, could provide a smoking gun. The
crater's discovery, which was announced in a recent issue of the
journal Meteoritics & Planetary Science, is a preliminary finding.
Scientists stress that a ground expedition is needed to determine if
the landform was actually carved out by an impact.
Yet the crater has already added another chapter to an intriguing
overall story that is, at best, loosely bound. Many of the pages are
washed away or buried. But several plot lines converge in conspicuous
ways.
Too many coincidences
Archeological findings show that in the space of a few centuries, many
of the first sophisticated civilizations disappeared. The Old Kingdom
in Egypt fell into ruin. The Akkadian culture of Iraq, thought to be
the world's first empire, collapsed. The settlements of ancient
Israel, gone. Mesopotamia, Earth's original breadbasket, dust.
Around the same time -- a period called the Early Bronze Age --
apocalyptic writings appeared, fueling religious beliefs that persist
today.
The Epic of Gilgamesh describes the fire, brimstone and flood of
possibly mythical events. Omens predicting the Akkadian collapse
preserve a record that "many stars were falling from the sky." The
"Curse of Akkad," dated to about 2200 B.C., speaks of "flaming
potsherds raining from the sky."
Roughly 2000 years later, the Jewish astronomer Rabbi bar Nachmani
created what could be considered the first impact theory: That Noah's
Flood was triggered by two "stars" that fell from the sky. "When God
decided to bring about the Flood, He took two stars from Khima, threw
them on Earth, and brought about the Flood."
Another thread was woven into the tale when, in 1650, the Irish
Archbishop James Ussher mapped out the chronology of the Bible -- a
feat that included stringing together all the "begats" to count
generations -- and put Noah's great flood at 2349 B.C.
All coincidence?
A number of scientists don't think so.
Mounting hard evidence collected from tree rings, soil layers and even
dust that long ago settled to the ocean floor indicates there were
widespread environmental nightmares in the Near East during the Early
Bronze Age: Abrupt cooling of the climate, sudden floods and surges
from the seas, huge earthquakes.
Comet as a culprit
In recent years, the fall of ancient civilizations has come to be
viewed not as a failure of social engineering or political might but
rather the product of climate change and, possibly, heavenly
happenstance. As this new thinking dawned, volcanoes and earthquakes
were blamed at first. More recently, a 300-year drought has been the
likely suspect.
But now more than ever, it appears a comet could be the culprit. One
or more devastating impacts could have rocked the planet, chilled the
air, and created unthinkable tsunamis -- ocean waves hundreds of feet
high. Showers of debris wafting through space -- concentrated versions
of the dust trails that create the Leonids -- would have blocked the
Sun and delivered horrific rains of fire to Earth for years.
So far, the comet theory lacks firm evidence. Like a crater.
Now, though, there is this depression in Iraq. It was found
accidentally by Sharad Master, a geologist at the University of
Witwatersrand in South Africa, while studying satellite images. Master
says the crater bears the signature shape and look of an impact caused
by a space rock.
The finding has not been developed into a full-fledged scientific
paper, however, nor has it undergone peer review. Scientist in several
fields were excited by the possibility, but they expressed caution
about interpreting the preliminary analysis and said a full scientific
expedition to the site needs to be mounted to determine if the
landforms do in fact represent an impact crater.
Researchers would look for shards of melted sand and telltale quartz
that had been shocked into existence. If it were a comet, the impact
would have occurred on what was once a shallow sea, triggering massive
flooding following the fire generated by the object's partial
vaporization as it screamed through the atmosphere. The comet would
have plunged through the water and dug into the earth below.
If it proves to be an impact crater, there is a good chance it was dug
from the planet less than 6,000 years ago, Master said, because
shifting sediment in the region would have buried anything older.
Arriving at an exact date will be difficult, researchers said.
"It's an exciting crater if it really is of impact origin," said Bill
Napier, an astronomer at the Armagh Observatory.
Cultural impact
Napier said an impact that could carve a hole this large would have
packed the energy of several dozen nuclear bombs. The local effect:
utter devastation.
"But the cultural effect would be far greater," Napier said in an
e-mail interview. "The event would surely be incorporated into the
world view of people in the Near East at that time and be handed down
through the generations in the form of celestial myths."
Napier and others have also suggested that the swastika, a symbol with
roots in Asia stretching back to at least 1400 B.C., could be an
artist's rendering of a comet, with jets spewing material outward as
the head of the comet points earthward.
But could a single impact of this size take down civilizations on
three continents? No way, most experts say.
Napier thinks multiple impacts, and possibly a rain of other smaller
meteors and dust, would have been required. He and his colleagues have
been arguing since 1982 that such events are possible. And, he says,
it might have happened right around the time the first urban
civilizations were crumbling.
Napier thinks a comet called Encke, discovered in 1786, is the remnant
of a larger comet that broke apart 5,000 years ago. Large chunks and
vast clouds of smaller debris were cast into space. Napier said it's
possible that Earth ran through that material during the Early Bronze
Age.
The night sky would have been lit up for years by a fireworks-like
display of comet fragments and dust vaporizing upon impact with
Earth's atmosphere. The Sun would have struggled to shine through the
debris. Napier has tied the possible event to a cooling of the
climate, measured in tree rings, that ran from 2354-2345 B.C.
Supporting evidence
Though no other craters have been found in the region and precisely
dated to this time, there is other evidence to suggest the scenario is
plausible. Two large impact craters in Argentina are believed to have
been created sometime in the past 5,000 years.
Benny Peiser, a social anthropologist at Liverpool John Moores
University in England, said roughly a dozen craters are known to have
been carved out during the past 10,000 years. Dating them precisely is
nearly impossible with current technology. And, Peiser said, whether
any of the impact craters thought to have been made in the past 10,000
years can be tied back to a single comet is still unknown.
But he did not discount Napier's scenario.
"There is no scientific reason to doubt that the break-up of a giant
comet might result in a shower of cosmic debris," Peiser said. He also
points out that because Earth is covered mostly by deep seas, each
visible crater represents more ominous statistical possibilities.
"For every crater discovered on land, we should expect two oceanic
impacts with even worse consequences," he said.
Tsunamis generated in deep water can rise even taller when they reach
a shore.
Next Page: Terrorism of today rooted in ancient impacts
Reverberating today
Peiser studies known craters for clues to the past. But he also
examines religions and cults, old and new, for signs of what might
have happened way back then.
"I would not be surprised if the notorious rituals of human sacrifice
were a direct consequence of attempts to overcome this trauma," he
says of the South American impact craters. "Interestingly, the same
deadly cults were also established in the Near East during the Bronze
Age."
The impact of comets on myth and religion has reverberated through the
ages, in Peiser's view.
"One has to take into consideration apocalyptic religions [of today]
to understand the far-reaching consequences of historical impacts," he
says. "After all, the apocalyptic fear of the end of the world is
still very prevalent today and can often lead to fanaticism and
extremism."
An obsession with the end of the world provides the legs on which
modern-day terrorism stands, Peiser argues. Leaders of fundamentalist
terror groups drum into the minds of their followers looming
cataclysms inspired by ancient writings. Phrases run along these
lines: a rolling up of the sun, darkening of the stars, movement of
the mountains, splitting of the sky.
It is in the context of such apocalyptic religions that a large
meteorite, enshrined in the Kaba in Mecca, became the most feared and
venerated object of the Islamic faith, Peiser said.
By using such language, radical fundamentalist leaders instill
"absolute commitment and fanaticism into their followers," Peiser
said. "Once you believe that the end is imminent and that your direct
action will hasten the coming of end-times, every atrocity is
sanctioned."
No smoking gun yet
Despite the excitement of the newfound hole in the ground in Iraq, it
is still far from clear why so many civilizations collapsed in such a
relatively short historical time frame. Few scientists, even those who
find evidence to support the idea, are ready to categorically blame a
comet.
French soil scientist Marie-Agnes Courty, who in 1997 found material
that could only have come from a meteorite and dated it to the Early
Bronze Age, urged caution on drawing any conclusions until a smoking
gun has been positively identified.
"Certain scientists and the popular press do prefer the idea of
linking natural catastrophes and societal collapse," Courty said.
Multiple cosmic impacts are an attractive culprit though, because of
the many effects they can have, including some found in real climate
and geologic data. The initial impact, if it is on land, vaporizes
life for miles around. Earthquakes (news - web sites) devastate an
even wider area. A cloud of debris can block out the Sun and alter the
climate. The extent and duration of the climate effects is not known
for sure, because scientists have never witnessed such an event.
It might not have taken much. Ancient civilizations, which depended on
farming and reliable rainfall, were precarious.
Mike Baillie, a professor of palaeoecology at Queens University in
Belfast, figures it would have taken just a few bad years to destroy
such a society.
Even a single comet impact large enough to have created the Iraqi
crater, "would have caused a mini nuclear winter with failed harvests
and famine, bringing down any agriculture based populations which can
survive only as long as their stored food reserves," Baillie said. "So
any environmental downturn lasting longer than about three years tends
to bring down civilizations."
Other scientists doubt that a single impact would have altered the
climate for so long.
Lessons for tomorrow
Either way, there is a giant scar on the planet, near the cradle of
civilization, that could soon begin to provide some solid answers,
assuming geologists can get permission to enter Iraq and conduct a
study.
"If the crater dated from the 3rd Millennium B.C., it would be almost
impossible not to connect it directly with the demise of the Early
Bronze Age civilizations in the Near East," said Peiser.
Perhaps before long all the cometary traditions, myths and scientific
fact will be seen to converge at the Iraqi hole in the ground for good
purpose. Understanding what happened, and how frequent and deadly such
impacts might be, is an important tool for researchers like Peiser who
aim to estimate future risk and help modern society avoid the fate of
the ancients.
"Paradoxically, the Hebrew Bible and other Near Eastern documents have
kept alive the memory of ancient catastrophes whose scientific
analysis and understanding might now be vital for the protection of
our own civilizations from future impacts," Peiser said.