Re: [tied] IE numbers

From: Glen Gordon
Message: 10377
Date: 2001-10-18

Miguel, it's neverending:
>> Mid IE Late IE
>> voiceless lenis *t *t
>> voiceless fortis *t: *d
>> voiced *d *dh
>
>Impossible. Your "lenis" consonant develops into a fortis in each
>and every IE language known to mankind, while your "fortis" develops into a
>voiced (lenis) in all IE languages but Germanic and Armenian. And the
>voiced consonant acquires aspiration for no good reason.

First, define your meaning of "fortis".

Second, the pronunciation of the MIE "fortis" is subject to
interpretation but it may have started out as a voiceless
inaspirate while the voiced stop was simply voiced, aspirated or
not. So:

voiceless > voiceless
aspirate
(lenis)

voiceless voiced
inaspirate > inaspirate
(fortis)

voiced > voiced
aspirate

Hardly impossible. It requires one shift and voila. You're just
too stubborn to accept it.

> >>> *dus- "bad"
> >>> < *deu-s- "to be abandoned"
> >>> < *deu-s- "to be alone"
> >>> < *t:�u "one"
> >>
> >>Any reason why we should believe this?
> >
> >Note also Latin /unificare/.
>
>Why? 1. it's not Classical Latin, 2. it doesn't mean "bad".

1. It doesn't matter since there are other examples of numerals
being incorporated into verbs like "to double" for instance.
We have the same situation here, where *deu- is given the
extension *-s- and presto.
2. So what? A verb literally meaning "to be one" might convey
a million and one nuances. Here, I'm implying that the nuance
came to be "to be alone" and then "to be abandoned". It's
very easy to see from there that being abandoned might imply
"weakness" or "lack of worth", especially in a hunting-gathering
society. Nomads will often "abandon" their babies if they are
too sickly to take care of. Hence the meaning "bad".

You're beating a dead horse. There are no formal objections to
such an interpretation of *dus- and you offer nothing better for
its origin.

- love gLeN


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