Re: TSUR/CHUR was:[tied] *ekwos and friends

From: Andrei Markine
Message: 10347
Date: 2001-10-17

I do not recall any aggressive usage of chur in Russian. Here are few examles:
chur men'a = choose me (when something beneficial is expected)
chur ya = let it be me, I want to do this (in same circumstances)
chur ne men'a = choose me (if I want to avoid something)
churat's'a = to avoid, to dislike

Meaning "forefarther" doesn't exclude aggression though, e.g. spirits can
be called against others.

PEK is also can be of Slavic origin (cf. peklo)

But what professional linguists say?

Andrei


At 10/17/2001 06:05 AM -0700, george knysh wrote:

>--- Andrei Markine <andrey@...> wrote:
> > At 10/17/2001 01:20 AM -0700, you wrote:
> > >*****GK: What about a simpler route:
> > >2. This "cry" is maintained even as the other
> > language
> > >shifts occur.[analogy: the mysterious "tsur (tobi)
> > >pek" expression in Ukr. I don't know if it exists
> > in
> > >other Slavic languages. It may. You tell me]
> >
> >
> > Is this misterious "tsur" related to Russian "chur"
> > (when children, we used
> > exclamations "chur men'a" "chur ne men'a"). I saw it
> > interpreted as
> > evocation of spirit of forefathers for assistance or
> > protection (cf.
> > prashchur).
>****GK: As a non-linguist I feel rather awkward at
>tackling this issue. What you say sounds highly
>plausible. Is Russian "chur" and Ukrainian "tsur" used
>in a kind of aggressive way against one's
>interlocutor? It seems to be so in Ukr. (like "may
>TSUR (CHUR?) come and do nasty things to you"). I had
>noted this a long time ago because of some perceived
>and perhaps totally incorrect and superficial
>affinities to Turkic (with its CHUR/TSUR and PEK(=BEG)
>and was toying with possible links to the "Khazar
>times of trouble" as described in the undated portion
>of the Primary Chronicle (where their toughness was
>compared to that of the Egyptian-Hebrew relationship
>before the advent of Moses the Liberator.) But fear of
>being completely off base about some mythical
>terrorizing TSUR-BEG turned into a frightening figure
>for children made me pause. What do you think?******
> >
> > Andrei
> >
>
>
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