--- Andrei Markine <
andrey@...> wrote:
> At 10/17/2001 01:20 AM -0700, you wrote:
> >*****GK: What about a simpler route:
> >2. This "cry" is maintained even as the other
> language
> >shifts occur.[analogy: the mysterious "tsur (tobi)
> >pek" expression in Ukr. I don't know if it exists
> in
> >other Slavic languages. It may. You tell me]
>
>
> Is this misterious "tsur" related to Russian "chur"
> (when children, we used
> exclamations "chur men'a" "chur ne men'a"). I saw it
> interpreted as
> evocation of spirit of forefathers for assistance or
> protection (cf.
> prashchur).
****GK: As a non-linguist I feel rather awkward at
tackling this issue. What you say sounds highly
plausible. Is Russian "chur" and Ukrainian "tsur" used
in a kind of aggressive way against one's
interlocutor? It seems to be so in Ukr. (like "may
TSUR (CHUR?) come and do nasty things to you"). I had
noted this a long time ago because of some perceived
and perhaps totally incorrect and superficial
affinities to Turkic (with its CHUR/TSUR and PEK(=BEG)
and was toying with possible links to the "Khazar
times of trouble" as described in the undated portion
of the Primary Chronicle (where their toughness was
compared to that of the Egyptian-Hebrew relationship
before the advent of Moses the Liberator.) But fear of
being completely off base about some mythical
terrorizing TSUR-BEG turned into a frightening figure
for children made me pause. What do you think?******
>
> Andrei
>
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