Re: [tied] -lh-

From: João S. Lopes Filho
Message: 8857
Date: 2001-08-30

Anouilh is definitely not Portuguese. Must be Occitan. Lh in portuguese is
allways pre-vocalic.

The Palatal L is written as

lh - Portuguese, Occitan
ll - Catalan, Old Spanish (in Modern spelled like z^ or dz^)
gli - Italian

Latin coagulu > Italian caglio - Obvaldic cuagl - Old French cail - Occitan
calh - Catalan coall - Portuguese coalho - Spanish cuajo

Latin folia > Italian foglia - Obvaldic feglia - French feuille - Occitan
folha - Portuguese folha - Catalan full - Spanish hoja - Rumanian foaie

----- Original Message -----
From: <tgpedersen@...>
To: <>
Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 6:32 AM
Subject: [tied] -lh-

> --- In cybalist@..., "Che DeBarna" <almogaver69@...> wrote:
> > As far as my French skills and my Catalan native speaker condition
> let me go (this time my Spanish-second-language-speaker condition is
> not useful), I'd say that "fenouil" and "Louis" are pronnounced in
> different ways. The first one is - I would - pronnounced /f@'nuj/ and
> the second one is rather /lu'i/ - my international phonetic system
> should be refreshed in my mind, I know... As Piotr (I think)
> said, /f@'nui/ is a iodization of the original lateral palatal final
> sound. I can confirm this because in most Eastern Catalan dialects
> this happens too, and this form lives together with the original form
> (lateral palatal). The same can be applied to "Louis": as far as my
> experience let me know, there's an equivalence between Catalan "o"
> and French "ou" (in Northern dialects, stressed closed "o" is
> executed /u/), it is, originally, French "ou" comes from a
> single "o". Then, if we assume that the pair "oi" is always an
> hyatus, never a diphtong, we can understand the same for
> current "oui" group (I repeat, actually it is an "oi"), at least if
> pronnouced accurately (a well different thing happens when speaking
> more naturally, of course...)
> I'm not a native, but Catalan may help for this issue.
> P.S.: Anouilh Portuguese? I don't think they have final "-lh"! I'm
> sure it is a gallization (?) of something like "Anulh" (?) and
> originally pronnounced /a'nuL/ where "L" means "lateral palatal".
> I recall seeing a readside advertising board just north of the French
> Spanish border, east side, in the local language ((true?) Catalan)
> which had <solelh> "sun".
> Torsten
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