Re: [tied] Anouilh

From: Che DeBarna
Message: 8839
Date: 2001-08-29

As far as my French skills and my Catalan native speaker condition let me go (this time my Spanish-second-language-speaker condition is not useful), I'd say that "fenouil" and "Louis" are pronnounced in different ways. The first one is - I would - pronnounced /f@'nuj/ and the second one is rather /lu'i/ - my international phonetic system should be refreshed in my mind, I know... As Piotr (I think) said, /f@'nui/ is a iodization of the original lateral palatal final sound. I can confirm this because in most Eastern Catalan dialects this happens too, and this form lives together with the original form (lateral palatal). The same can be applied to "Louis": as far as my experience let me know, there's an equivalence between Catalan "o" and French "ou" (in Northern dialects, stressed closed "o" is executed /u/), it is, originally, French "ou" comes from a single "o". Then, if we assume that the pair "oi" is always an hyatus, never a diphtong, we can understand the same for current "oui" group (I repeat, actually it is an "oi"), at least if pronnouced accurately (a well different thing happens when speaking more naturally, of course...)
I'm not a native, but Catalan may help for this issue.
P.S.: Anouilh Portuguese? I don't think they have final "-lh"! I'm sure it is a gallization (?) of something like "Anulh" (?) and originally pronnounced /a'nuL/ where "L" means "lateral palatal".
>From: "Glen Gordon"
>Subject: Re: [tied] Anouilh
>Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:59:41
> >Not a real diphthong, but a -VC combination where C happens to be
> >[j]. I wonder how you pronounce or . Surely
> >not "fenwee, grenwee". For me, they are disyllabic, end in [-nuj]
> >(where [-j] derives from an old palatal lateral) and rhyme with
> >Anouilh's name. is really [lwi] (monosyllabic). I hope our
> >native French-speakers can confirm all this.
>Well, this is how I pronounce things:
>"grenouille" [gRo"n'nui] (the ending is more [i] than [j])
>"Louis" [lu'i]
>"Anouilh" [anu'i]
>Why are the tonal accents different? I don't know, but I seem to be
>instinctively drawn to these pronunciations from subconscious
>imitation of native speakers. I would protest against "Louis" being
>monosyllabic except in very rapid speech perhaps.
>And yes, Anouilh looks unFrench. Kinda Portuguese-looking.
> gLeNny gEe
> ...wEbDeVEr gOne bEsErK!
> home:
> email: glengordon01@...
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