Odp: [tied] Re: House and City

Needless to say, these examples were not meant to be particularly
convincing to the likes of you, Miguel :)). Just a couple of remarks:

Bopp was only aware of the existence of the Malayo-Polynesian group,
and only a few MP languages, such as Malagasy or Malay could be
studied in Europe at his time. It's interesting that as we move back
in time from MP to PA, the striking similariy of the word for "2"
(most impressive for the form <dua>) to its IE counterpart begins to
fade somewhat.

I propose we should further assume that "5" and "10" are not truly
ancient in PIE (the are indeclinable and in general perilously close
to that stretch of evidently innovated numerals from "6" to "9"). Of
course "1" is not a real numeral at all ... so, let's face it, the
only true PIE numerals are "2", "3" and "4" -- and they are all
shared with PA -- three out of three! Such is the power of extra
assumptions!

;)

Piotr

--- In cybalist@..., Miguel Carrasquer Vidal <mcv@...> wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:02:56 +0100, "Piotr Gasiorowski"
> <gpiotr@...> wrote:
>
> >The Quechua words for "five" and "six" are <pisca> and <soqta>
(cf. Aymara <phisca> and <suxta>). In Chacobo, a Panoan language, the
words for "two" and "three" are <dávita> and <téreshen>. The proto-
Miwok word for "three" is reconstructed as *tel.o- ... Many other
such examples could be given. What are our numerals doing in the
Americas?
>
> Apart from my feeling that the Quechumaran and Chacobo examples
above
> are not particularly convincing, it's certainly true that
coincidences
> such as the proto-Miwok or the Proto-Bantu words for "3" are fully
to
> be expected. Usually, digging a little deeper or looking at the
> general context is enough to dispel any doubts one might have about
> their character of random resemblances. Certain coincidences,
> however, are more worrysome. Old Bopp was, I presume, more than a
> little worried about the Austronesian words for "2" and "3" (and I
> additionally worry about "4": that's already three out six possible
> matches, if we assume only the numerals 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 10 are
truly
> ancient in PIE). And speaking of Miwok, another such accumulation
of
> coincidences is found in the Proto-Eastern-Miwok personal suffixes:
>
> 1sg. *-m 1pl. *-mas.
> 2sg. *-s. 2pl. *-tok
> 3sg. *-0
>
>
> =======================
> Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> mcv@...