Re: Language - Area - Routes

From: tgpedersen@...
Message: 5976
Date: 2001-02-08

--- In cybalist@..., jekl@... wrote:
> --- In cybalist@..., tgpedersen@... wrote:
>
> [snip]
> > I don't blame Polish archaeologists for not doing their utmost to
> > locate Germanic relics in the vicinity of "Gotenhafen" after
1945,
> > but still: absence of proof...
>
> Hello!
>
> I think this is getting too far for my taste. As far as I know
> Gotenhafen name was invented by Hitler after conquering Poland
> in 1939. And noone else than Germans were pioneers of "national
> archaeology".
> Luckily these times are over for some time alreade. I think
> there is a general consensus on the presence of different
> germanic tribes in current territory of Poland, and it is not
> claimed that Slavs were present in Poland since the Mesolitic
> (this was getting even that far), even not anything before
> second half of V century.
> There was a lot of research done on Gothic presence in nowadays
> Poland and I can even see that the archaeologists feel some proud
> of discovering more and more, especially in eastern parts of Poland
> (Kotlina Hrubieszowska). What is however interesting is that
> there isn't that much proof for Gothic presence on the very shore
> of the Baltic Sea, there is much more about them inland. Once
> I read a theory that the tribe itself was formed actually in
> northern Poland, out of many small groups slowly arriving from
> Scandinavia over the years to later become Goths. This just one
> theory, not necesserali true, but their material culture (known as
> Wielbark culture) indeed was formed in Poland. One can track their
> later expansion towards south-east along Vistula and Bug, till they
> arrived to western Ukraine (forming Czerniahovsk culture) to start
> their fabulous historical career... BTW I think thanks to Goths,
> we have one of the first historical records of Slavs: I vaguely
> remember that there is a small note told by Jordanes: after Goths
> have arrived to present-day Ukraine they have fought Slavs
> who were very numerous but not so well organized or experienced
> in fighting so their sheer number didn't help them much.
> I'm citing everything from memory so I may be mistaken a bit here.
> The point is: we Poles have nothing to be ashamed of because of
Goths
> (or Vandals) being here before us. Not nowadays...
>
> As for Gdansk name origin: rather prove Piotr is wrong instead of
> waiting for him to prove you wrong. A simpler solution (native
> word) is always more favourable solution than something more
> complicated.
>
> Jerzy

The point I was trying to make was that some Poles still might have
some resentment over their cities being renamed with names
like "Gotenhafen". I didn't know Hitler personally invented the name?
But the political intention of the name is clear "we (meaning the
Germans) were here first". There's no one who would not react to that
emotionally.

Torsten