From: tgpedersen@...
Message: 5976
Date: 2001-02-08
> --- In cybalist@..., tgpedersen@... wrote:1945,
>
> [snip]
> > I don't blame Polish archaeologists for not doing their utmost to
> > locate Germanic relics in the vicinity of "Gotenhafen" after
> > but still: absence of proof...Goths
>
> Hello!
>
> I think this is getting too far for my taste. As far as I know
> Gotenhafen name was invented by Hitler after conquering Poland
> in 1939. And noone else than Germans were pioneers of "national
> archaeology".
> Luckily these times are over for some time alreade. I think
> there is a general consensus on the presence of different
> germanic tribes in current territory of Poland, and it is not
> claimed that Slavs were present in Poland since the Mesolitic
> (this was getting even that far), even not anything before
> second half of V century.
> There was a lot of research done on Gothic presence in nowadays
> Poland and I can even see that the archaeologists feel some proud
> of discovering more and more, especially in eastern parts of Poland
> (Kotlina Hrubieszowska). What is however interesting is that
> there isn't that much proof for Gothic presence on the very shore
> of the Baltic Sea, there is much more about them inland. Once
> I read a theory that the tribe itself was formed actually in
> northern Poland, out of many small groups slowly arriving from
> Scandinavia over the years to later become Goths. This just one
> theory, not necesserali true, but their material culture (known as
> Wielbark culture) indeed was formed in Poland. One can track their
> later expansion towards south-east along Vistula and Bug, till they
> arrived to western Ukraine (forming Czerniahovsk culture) to start
> their fabulous historical career... BTW I think thanks to Goths,
> we have one of the first historical records of Slavs: I vaguely
> remember that there is a small note told by Jordanes: after Goths
> have arrived to present-day Ukraine they have fought Slavs
> who were very numerous but not so well organized or experienced
> in fighting so their sheer number didn't help them much.
> I'm citing everything from memory so I may be mistaken a bit here.
> The point is: we Poles have nothing to be ashamed of because of
> (or Vandals) being here before us. Not nowadays...The point I was trying to make was that some Poles still might have
>
> As for Gdansk name origin: rather prove Piotr is wrong instead of
> waiting for him to prove you wrong. A simpler solution (native
> word) is always more favourable solution than something more
> complicated.
>
> Jerzy