Re: [tied] Danubo-Troadic.

>From: Glen Gordon
> Mark O speaks of a Pre-IE language existing in Anatolia in 7000 BCE >to
>my horror.

Mark O:

>It's just a kite, but it's a possible kite. Pre-PIE would have staged >in
>NW Anatolia, then entered Europe via the Bosphorus landbridge, and >thence
>north into Central and then North Central Europe as the climate >improved.

I presume that you are dating this migration to 7000 BCE about a thousand
years before the wave of agriculture? Conveniently for you, the movement of
a sparse population would be hard to detect archaeologically. My foremost
concern is the date of your spread which makes everything else seem very
implausible.

>I am not familiar with the 'usual' Nostraticist dates for a split from
> >Uralic, but I suspect this puts it back further in time, and clearly,
> >further to the south.

The date for Uralic's split from Nostratic is dependent on how you mean, how
one envisions the dispersal of Nostratic languages and whom you talk to. If
you're talking to me, I say that Uralic split from Uralic-Yukaghir circa
5000 BCE, which split from Steppe circa 9000 BCE which split away from
Eurasiatic circa 12000 BCE which split away from Nostratic circa 15000 BCE -
to give the short answer. My dispersal is dependent on a Central Asian
origin for both IE and Uralic (a la Allen Bomhard).

>This is almost Renfrew's thesis, but the the Anatolic group would have
> >gone off to Europe for a spell before returning to Anatolia -- and the
> >pre-PIEs would not seem to have been heavily involved in Anatolian
> >agriculture. The idea that Anatolic and the rest of IE split up ca >7000
>is to horrifying to contemplate.

But it still makes IE originate from Anatolia and it's something that I
can't swallow because of my feelings on Nostratic and IndoEuropean-Uralic
relationship. To me, making IE originate from Anatolia not only is ugly in
terms of time-depth but cannot be reasonably explored without explaining
away Uralic similarities.

- gLeN

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