Re: [tied] First iron swords on mass scale

----- Original Message -----
From: Miguel Carrasquer Vidal <mcv@...>
To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, October 12, 2000 8:25 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] First iron swords on mass scale


> On Wed, 11 Oct 2000, Piotr wrote:
> >Greek has si:de:ros/-on is no doubt a loanword, perhaps somehow related
to Latin
> >si:dus, -eris 'constellation, star(s)' (magnetite = star-stone??).
> Miguel Carrasquer Vidal replied:
> Latin <si:dus, si:deris> is from *sweides-, and I doubt Greek borrowed
> it from post-rhotacism Latin. Again the Basque connection is
> interesting: Basque <zilar>, <zirar>, <zidar> "silver" are derived by
> Michelena from Pre-Basque *zirar, but I think that in fact Bizkaian
> <zidar> /sidar/ is the most archaic form. There are a number of such
> words, e.g. <belar ~ berar ~ bedar> "grass", <belarri ~ berarri ~
> bedarri> "ear", <elur ~ erur ~ edur> "snow", where the normal
> development *-d- > -r- either failed to take place (Bizkaian) or where
> -r- was dissimilated to -l- (Central dialects) before final -r.

I agree with this point of view, as I did ain a previous message. Maybe
Si:de:ros is a dissimilation of *Si:re:ros

> Sometimes it's connected to Semitic Akk. parzillu, Arabic farzil
> "iron", which seems dubious. The Semitic word may itself be of
> Sumerian origin (although no Sum. *bar.sil(u) is attested). Note that
> if we turn *bar.sil(u) around we get *sil(u).bar, just like reversing
> Sum./Akk. anna.ku "tin" gives us ku.anna (Hitt. kuwanna "copper").

ALso connected by some people with name BRAZIL.
BAR-ZIL x ZIL-BAR, it's fascinating!
ANNA-KU x KU-ANNA > Hittite Kuwanna > Grk kyannos "blue" (color of copper
sulphate)

> Other interesting metallurgical connections: Sumerian <urudu> "copper"
> from PIE *h1reudh- "red; copper"? Basque <berun> "lead" < *belum-,
> cf. Lat. <plumbum>, Greek <molubdos>, <bolibos>, etc., possibly
> connected to pre-/para-Celtic *plowdo-, Celtic *laudo- > Gmc. (Eng.)
> "lead" and/or Celtic *bli:wo > Gmc. (Germ.) "Blei" by way of an
> Iberian language lacking /p/ and /w/ (plowdo- > belubdo ~ belumbo ;
> bli:wo- > bolibo).
Greek has the forms molybdos, molibos and bolimos.
molybdos < *molubyos (mol@... ?)
bolimos / molibos < *molibos (mol@...?)
plumbus < *ploudhos (like Celtic forms) or < *blumbus < *mlu(m)bus ? or the
mix of the two?
So, we must have a form /MLB/ or /BLM/

>
> =======================
> Miguel Carrasquer Vidal
> mcv@...
>
>
>
>