Re: [tied] PIE theogony

The idea of Titanomachy as version of final Ragnarok is interesting, but I
think that Trojan War has some elements of a Greek Ragnarok.
Vanir and Twins (Nasatya): Dumezil stated them. They were linked to third
Function, Fertility. They are also linked to Medicine, Peace, Children
protectors. Dumezil stated that perhaps Njoerd-Freyr was originally a pair
of brothers similar to Indian Nasatya e Greek Dioskouroi. Nowadays there are
explicit features of Dioskouroi in Catholic Saints Cosmas and Damianus (we
call them Cosme & Damiao in Portuguese).
The problem with the Vanir is that they suddenly appeared in Nordic Myths.
There's no tale about their birth. There's Njoerd and his 2 children Freyr
and Freyja. There's Guldrun. There's Beyla and Byggv. But what their
origins.
A good clue to track IE myths is compare Scandinavia and India. But who were
the Indian "Vanir"? The Asuras? The multiple aspects of Shiva? The Rudras?

Joao SL
rio

----- Original Message -----
From: Glen Gordon <glengordon01@...>
To: <cybalist@egroups.com>
Sent: Friday, September 22, 2000 2:21 PM
Subject: Re: [tied] PIE theogony


>
>
> Joao
> > When I say couple I'm not necessarily saying they had a husband-wife
> >relation. I'm just saying that these two appear in many IE theogonies,
> >although in Persia we have a bull instead of a cow.
>
> Well, technically I don't mean a "husband-wife" combo either. Is there any
> myths you know of where Hera-Juno does a fling? It just seems strange that
> she was queen of the gods as well as humans, helping woman at childbirth
and
> a symbol of motherhood as well as destructive jealousy, etc. Why would she
> be so connected with human beings and motherhood?
>
> A bull for the goddess, eh? That sounds "European".
>
> Joao:
> >The 7 biblical days in PIE theogony?
>
> Right, but the 7 days of the Bible, of course, are also present in
> SumeroAkkadian mythology as well.
>
> >The idea of sky-nymphs and water nymphs it's seducing... I think IE >had
a
> >sort of antithetical beings, represented by a class of sylphides >or
white
> >elves, aerial sprites (cf. Ljosalfar, yakshasas, kinnaras) >and a class
of
> >underground sprites or dark elves (cf. Svartalfar, >subterraneous nagas).
>
> Aah, bit by bit this starts to make more sense. Now what is the difference
> between sprites/elves and nymphs here? Could they have originally been the
> same group of beings in IE myth? Wouldn't that be a simpler theory?
>
> Secondly, I can see how this myth could evolve and complicate itself by
> adding two new deities, "Lord of Nebhoses" (a "light" god) and "Lord of
> Wedrax" (a "dark" god) replacing parts of *Nepo:t's and *Wa:tnos' original
> functions. The colour association is not IndoEuropean and so would seem to
> me a later development.
>
> >Maybe water-nymphs linked to the Great Serpent-River that surrrounds >the
> >Worls (cf Joermungandr & ..., Okeanos & Okeanides, Shesha & >nagas ).
>
> Seems right. Come to think of it, Okeanos in this sense couldn't be *Da:nu
> like I had said earlier. He'd have aspects of *Nepo:t.
>
> >Well, Vanir were accepted by the Aesir. This is surely right. In
>Ireland,
> >Tuatha de Danaan & Fir Bolg fight first, became friends and >after these
> >pact fight the Fomoires. In Roma, romans and sabins do the >same and
fought
> >the etrusques.
>
> If we are speaking of the Aesir and the Vanir as *Xensu, beings of the
> Overworld, and *Wenu, beings of the Underworld, of course I have to agree
> that for the most part they got along since you can't have a cosmos
without
> either an Overworld or Underworld, so to speak. They would fight however
> during the Renewal (Apocalypse).
>
> Whoa! Just had a flash of inspiration, good ol' iced coffee kickin' in. :)
I
> just realized that the battle tales between different classes of gods that
> keep recurring in Greek-Roman myth are a rehashing of the IE Renewal tale,
> being duplicated over and over in order to tell successive stories of
> "renewal", _generational_ renewal where one generation deposes the next.
> That would explain the war with the Titans, duh! Why didn't I realise this
> before?? And the final Renewal, "Ragnarok", is simply an extension of this
> pattern. Hmm, this is alot like Mayan myth (We are under the Fifth Sun, I
> think).
>
> >Definitely, I we have differents opinions about the Twins.
>
> Okay, you said that the Twins had "Vanir-like" qualities. Name them.
>
> - gLeN
>
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