Re: [tied] Old Europe & the IEs.

From: Rex H. McTyeire

For Mark and Steve: Re Oltenia

You are both right.  But the Wallachian reference is no longer necessary.

IE  Oltenia still exists, but significantly predates Wallachia, which no longer exists, even as a local regional expression.  It was a temporary political compromise.  In several political iterations Wallachia alternately encompassed and simply bordered it (with Oltenia sandwiched between Banat and Wallachia.)  

 

Romania claims 10 historical provinces, 9 with pre Roman, and pre Dacian state history:

 

Crisana 

Marmures (NE of Transylvania, but never fell to Hungarians)

Bucovina 

Moldova  (Moldavia..Costoboc country)

Bessarabia (Name much later..After Bessarab, formerly part of Moldavia)

Dobrodgea

Transylvania

Banat  (Romanian, but was a Hungarian "Voivodat" for a while)

Oltenia

Muntenia  (the general center of the vacillating later Wallachia)

  

All ten still exist as regions in name except Bessarabia, which elected to

be independent, and is now the country of Moldova.  There is no longer any application of Wallachia..Bucharest is simply in Muntenia. Moldavians in Romania recognize ethnic and linguistic links to Moldova..where Russian is common due to the Czar's "protection" of Bessarabia from the Ottomans..long before WWII.  But the romaneste spoken there (per my Moldavian girlfriend..I haven't been yet) is a radical dialect and "may" have

more Thraco-Dacian base..less latin.

 

La Revedere;
Rex H. McTyeire
Bucharest, Romania
<rexbo@...>   

I finally broke down and bought a decent atlas, the 7th edition of the National Geographic. It does mark Wallachia, essentially everything east, west and north of the Danube and south of the Transylvanian Alps.

 

There is also Dobruja, the area east of the Danube facing the Black Sea. I assume this is what Rex means by "Dobrodgea". It includes a smidgeon of Bulgaria.

 

As for Oltenia, I'm assuming this is 'West Wallachia', the area west of the Olt River.

 

The Mures river is interesting, almost a making a complete circle as it goes up the swirl of valley that makes up Transylvania. 

 

I see there is a Moldova River, a tributary of the Siret. Yes, I finally found the Siret. The name 'Moldavia/Moldova' is confusing, almost wantonly applied. This is just as confusing as 'Morava', which shows up as the name of two distinct Danube tributaries.

 

I've also finally untangled what happens up there where Ukraine, Poland, Slovakia, Romania and Hungary meet. Yes, the Dneister, Tisza and San Rivers are all very very close to each other. I assume this is how the Huns and Magyars, and everyone else who came from the east entered Hungary?

 

I will have to take Piotr's word for it that it's an easy over-the-hill journey to switch rivers leading down to the Black Sea.

 

Mark.