Re: [TIED] Raggle-taggle Gypsies

From: Mark Odegard
Message: 2470
Date: 2000-05-20

It's my understanding that the big historical grammar and the big historical dictionary have yet to be written for Romany, and apparently, it's only been in the past 2 or 3 decades or so that it became commonly known these people came from India-Pakistan via Iran, and (then-Greek-speaking) Turkey before entering Europe. The language is definitely in the Indic group, notwithstanding its massive lexical borrowings.
 
In American English 'Gypsy' does not have the pejorative flavor it gets in the UK. Nor do Gypsies have bad reputation they have in Europe. Rather, they are rather exotic, and in a stereotypal sense, something encountered in only an operetta. 'Tzigane' is a very famous violin composition -- as extreme a virtouso piece as exists.
 
One is tempted to use the Gypsies as a template for understanding certain aspects of the spread of IE. The Bell-Beakers may have been itinerant a la the Gypsies, bringing some advanced technology and prestige trade goods along their routes.
 
Certainly, the extraordinary migration of this people and their language offers an example of just how fast and how far a people can travel with just animal-drawn carts.
 
 

Piotr writes:

Tzigani (Polish Cyganie, German Zigeuner, etc.) is comes via French and Hungarian from Byzantine Greek athinganoi 'untouchables', applied originally to a Manichean sect in Asia Minor, and by extension to heretics and other suspect people. The first European reference to the Romani dates from 1378, when the Venetian governor of Nauplion (Peloponnese) issued an official confirmation of privileges granted to the local community of Atsigani.

Gypsy is short for 'Gyptians (Egyptians), as John says. same for Spanish gitanos, etc.

I remember reading somewhere that Romani (Rroma, Doma, Loma) derives ultimately from Sanskrit d.ama (with a Dravidian etymology), used of low-caste musicians. But I haven't checked it yet