Rex, yes, I think we are getting close to some kind of consensus at last
> Agreeing with the title equation after this several weeks of
interchange:
> Pelasgians = Etruscans.
In reply to my point
> > According to Herodotus, the pre-Greek inhabitants of the island of
> > Lemnos island were Pelasgians while, according to Thucydides, they
were
> > Tyrrhenians.
>
> I think they were both right. Diodorus, H. and others comment that
> the Lydians (of one city) renamed themselves as Tyrrhenians in
conjunction
> with this colonization to the west (which we are suggesting seeded the
> Etruscan culture). We are now talking about post 800 BCE, following
> Pelasgi arrival c. 3000 BCE. Even though H. refers to resilient
pockets of
> pre EBA "Tyrrhenians" as late as c. 500 BCE in rural areas of
Thessaly, the
> only other references to Tyrrhenians of Italy (and formerly of
Greece), are
> as former area masters reduced to Piracy and Tyrrhenian sea Island
> strongholds after Pelasgi dominance of the Aegean, and the sea trade
> proper..also losing ground in Italy to many intruders..without the
> technology yet to threaten the islands. My conclusion: the
Tyrrhenian
> label applied to (Lydian Tyrra, Lemnos..and sponsored colonists) is a
> resurgence of an old name. Possibly a state like appellation from
"Tyrra"
> which may or may not be a resilient pre-EBA Tyrrhenian name. Or as
> suggested previously, because of the success of these multiplying
Italian
> colonies in a place already called "Tyrrhenia".
It is exceedingly difficult trying to unravel what was meant by names
after nearly three thousand years. I suspect that the ancients had
almost as much difficulty as we are having, tended to confuse names,
give false etymologies and generally muddy the waters as much as
clarify them.
It is interesting reading the footnotes of Graves' "Ancient Greek
Myths" under the names of Pelasius. As the Greeks saw the Pelasgians
as "authochthonous 'son's of the soil'", I suspect they would have used
the name Pelasgians almost as we would use the name "natives", or
"aborigines". The "*tyrsn" group seem to be more complex, as it is
found in Egyptian and Hittite documents as "Trusha" and may crop up in
Troas as well. The substituting the "s" for an "h" seems to be a Greek
(not a Tyrhhenian) trait, as the name Rasena, given by the Etruscans
(*'trs(k)n?) would show. There is also the Teucrian name given to the
People of the Sea who settled around Acre and Dor in Palestine, linked
to Teucre, the ally of Ajax in the Trojan War (did the Homeric Greeks
put him on the wrong side in the battle?) Greek Teucre and Hittite
Tarcho(n) do seem linked in some way, as does Etruscan Tarquinus. Then
there is the name of Phoenician Tyre itself, and the links of the
Danaids, in Greek myth - linking Io and Europa back to the
Pelasgians.... Complex stuff.
> (Herodotus Histories 1.94.7) They no longer called themselves
Lydians, but
> Tyrrhenians, after the name of the king's son who had led them there.
> (Rex: Referring to Lydians in concert with Lemnans who sponsored
Rasenna
> colonies..into Italy on a sea AND into an area long known as
> "Tyrrhenian/Tyrrhenia".)
>
> (Strabo Geography 6.2.2) According to Ephorus these were the
earliest Greek
> cities to be founded in Sicily, that is, in the tenth generation
after the
> Trojan war; for before that time men were so afraid of the bands of
> Tyrrhenian pirates and the savagery of the barbarians in this region
that
> they would not so much as sail thither for trafficking;
> (Rex: I think here we get into time a little bit, and refer to
Tyrrhenian
> Pirates..as a pre-Etruscan Italian faction..certainly a faction
present pre
> colonization. The implication is that prior to about 1,000 BCE,
Tyrrhenian
> pirates {who could not be Etruscan} are holed up in Sicily, preventing
> colonization and trade there to the extent it is already going on
> elsewhere...but after this point in time, perhaps the north point of
the
> triangle drew its name: Pelorias, near the territory of the Palici.
Palermo
> anyone?:-)
Sounds good to me... Even the Etruscans in Italy were not against a
little piracy. The Massailots suffered until the Battle of (was it)
Allilia(? that's wrong - I don't have my library here). Piracy again
sounds very like late Mycenaean and the peoples of the sea yet again!!!
<Snip> not because I disagree, but because I think your quotes make
eminent good sense....
> >as well as for the Pelasgian inhabitants of the
> > Greek peninsula of Akte, i.e. the founders of the city of Athens who
> > were expelled and moved to Lenmos.
>
> Careful here. The Pelasgian builders of the Pelasgicon may have been
> expelled and joined others in Lemnos, but they may have been expelled
by an
> area faction older than the Pelasgic arrival..i.e. the earlier
inhabitants
> of Greece: Tyrrhenians..now post-Pelasgic Attics..in the one greek
City
> where Pelasgi dominance did not stick.
And yet Aeschylus gloried in the Pelasgian origins of Athens. As a
democrat he was very keen to see the "sons of the soil" elevated
vis-a-vis the more refined aristocrats who had good Hellenic pedigrees.
I suspect that the Pelasgian expulsion, rather than being by Tyrrhenoi
was by aristocratic Hellenoi who were affraid of a helot-type revolt by
an underclass. Both Herod. and Thuc. almost imply as much.
OK, where to from here. Perhaps this is our new consensus
1. Pelasgian = native "Sons of the Soil" and was used by classical
greeks to describe any Aegean group whom the Greeks thought was
"native" to the area.
2. Tyrhhenian = a more slippery concept that may have changed its
linguistic affiliation as time went on.
3. Perhaps originally, in pre-Hittite times it was the name given to
the "pre-IE" Asianic-neolithic peoples of Western Anatolia and the
northern Aegean (relations of Glens Dene-Caucasian Khattic).
4. In Hittite times, there was an acculturation of Luwian language, so
that by the Archaic period they spoke a distant dialect of Lydian.
5. In late Mycenaean times they participated in the movement of the
Peoples of the Sea, to Cilicia, Phoenicia, Philistia and Egypt, as well
as into the Western Mediterannean.
6. In the Archaic Dark Age period, a colonising movement from Lydia,
fleeing perhaps a drought and the creation of the Lydian monarchy at
Sardis, reinforced groups who had already moved into the Western
Mediiterranean.
7. By classical times, another acculturation occurred with increasing
Grecianisation of their language and culture, with the result that
Tyrhhennoi were seen as a non-Hellenic underclass etmologically and
linguistically connected with their own Pelasgi.
8. In early Roman times a further acculturation in Italy converted
Etruscans into Tuscans.
Well folks, Tyrhhenoi in this explanation emerge a little like my
grandfather's axe, you know, the one whose handle we changed four
times, and where we replaced the head twice, but it is still my
grandfather's axe!!! ;-)
Do we have consensus yet?
Warmest Regards
John