From: Tommy Tyrberg
Message: 516
Date: 1999-12-09
> Från: Brent Lords <brentlords@...>As for the character of the remnants of Indo-Iranian attested in the Levant
> Till: cybalist@eGroups.com
> Ämne: [cybalist] Re: Piotr: Goliath and Uriah the Hittite as IE -
> Datum: den 9 december 1999 01:52
>
> Piotr wrote:
> Brent,
> Does your "Indo-Aryan" (in the Hyksos context) mean Indo-European or
> specifically Indo-Iranian? Technically, (Indo-)Aryan is an alternative
> name for the latter, but that would exclude Hittite- or
> Luwian-speakers. The Hurrian elites were even more specifically
> (Proto-)Indic rather that Iranian, judging from the terminology cited
> in Kikkuli's treatise on horses.
> Piotr
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> -------------------------------------------
>
> Piotr
>
> If you made me answer this one way or the other, I would answer
> Proto-Indic. But I have to confess, I don't know with absolute
> certainty the answer to this, and I don't want to mislead you.
>
> When I was reading this stuff, 6-7 years back I thought Indo-European,
> Indo-Aryan and Indo-Iran were all pretty much the same thing so I
> didn't pay any attention to the distinctions you are asking about. In
> fact, I wasn't even that focused on Egypt, and was just trying to put
> together a view of what was happening in the whole Upper Middle East
> region at the time. I do remember my references all used Indo-Aryan in
> talking about them. I seem to recall that many were specifically
> proposing that the invaders either were, or were closely related to,
> the Hurrians and that their rulers were related to the Proto-Indic.
> But I wouldn't want to bet-the-farm on this specific memory. The key
> would be finding the names of the rulers and the gods.
>
> When I was looking into it, I was mostly using Berkley Universities
> Library, so I don't have the references here, to look back on. The
> references I do have, also state Indo-Aryan and specifically state an
> uncertainty about the precise origin, beyond Indo-Aryan. (these
> materials are even more dated, and not focused specifically on Egypt).
> I have looked around to see if I could find some of the rulers names or
> the names of the gods, but I can't find anything here that would help.
> The pharaohs list I have are incomplete, and are based mostly on later
> Egyptian sources and for the most part later Egyptians studiously
> avoided writing the Hyksos names down. (part of this hate thing).
>
> Also I meant to mention that Avaris is sometimes rendered Auaris. I
> don't know if that changes things. And I am not certain about the
> timing of when Avaris got its name, and when the Indo-Aryans are
> thought to have been part of the invasion group(s). i.e. Avaris name is
> clearly tied to the Hyksos, but the timing of when Avaris got its name
> and the presents of the Indo-Aryan as part of the Hyksos, is what I am
> not certain about. If Avaris had its name before the Indo-Aryans
> arrived, that would throw a big hole in everything. Wish I could be of
> more help. Maybe there is a real Egyptologist who is current on the
> Second Intermediate Period, reading this who can.
>
> By the way, Sabine, if your reading this. Some of the references I
> looked through suggest three groups of peoples may have been involved:
> the Sinai or Arabic desert nomads, Semitic peoples from the
> Levant-specifically the Canaanites who made up the largest part of the
> population, and the Indo-Aryans, whose role may have been limited to a
> ruling group. They may have been involved in three successive waves, or
> intermixed. The only clear thing here, is that the Canaanites made up
> most of the 15th dynasty (which was also centered at Avaris), and which
> I ironically do have pharaoh names for.
>
> Regards
> Brent
>
>
>
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