Re: Sounds, Symbols, and Spellings

Andrew Dunbar wrote:

>
> --- "Peter T. Daniels" <grammatim@...>
> wrote:
>
> > Steve Bett wrote:
> > >
> > > > Peter Daniels wrote: Who is Adam Brown, and why
> > > > do you identify him as "linguist"?
> > >
> > > SB: Brown has a degree in linguistis and teaches
> > > linguistics and ESL classes in Singapore.
> > >
> > > > PD: Is the blurb-writer acquainted with French?
> > > > Korean? (Which, by the measure that people
> > > > criticize English for, is even more
> > > > disconnected from surface phonetics than
> > > > English.)
> > >
> > > Brown wrote the blurb that appears on the back
> > > cover. I have no idea as to what his language
> > > proficiencies are.
> > >
> > > By the measures of phonemicity that I use French
> > > and Korean are much more phonemic than English.
> > > There are, of course, many ways to measure how
> > > well the writing system represents speech. I am
> > > very curious about the one that you use to come
> > > up with your counter-intuitive conclusions.
> > >
> > > One what basis do you conclude that Koren and
> > > French are less phonemic than English?
> >
> > All languages are phonemic.
>
> What are some phonemes of ASL, BSL, or Auslan?

I know nothing of BSL or Auslan, but Stokoe's phonemic analysis (he
called it "cheremic") of ASL is well known and has stood the test of
four decades. You'll find it (reproduced in tiny figures) in WWS.

> > I referred to surface phonetics.
> >
> > Are you talking about orthographies that record the
> > surface phonemics of a language?
> >
> > Korean most certainly does not; look at any of the
> > examples in Sohn's *Korean*.
> >
> > And French is as legendary as English for its
> > difficult spelling -- which other languages have
> > the institution of the "spelling bee"?
>
> I've been under the impression that French spelling
> is easy for (native) French speakers and difficult

That's certainly not what my French teachers said!

> for foreigners whereas English spelling is difficult
> for (native) English speakers, and very difficult for
> foreigners.
>
> It has been written that Tibetan outdoes English as
> far as separation between spoken and written forms.

Or, as the handbooks of Tibetan put it, "Tibetan has many dialects."
--
Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...