mariano de vierna y carles-tolra wrote:

>
> William B.,
>
> Sorry for the delay in answering.
>
> I want to thank you very much for that introduction to Pitman's and Greg's
> shorthands. Now I understand why you mentioned them with respect the "features"
> subject.
> Nevertheless, I see that even being actualy very featural still they are not fully
> featural.
>
> [you wrote]
> > in gregg, for example, a short diagonal line is voiceless T, while a long
> > diagonal line is voiced D; and similarly for the voiceless-voiced pair K vs
> > G. but a short horizontal line is N, while a long one is M. See WWS p. 812.
> [mariano]
> Well, my speculative interpretation is that <m> and <n> are letters in wich what
> is symbolic for nasal voice are just the horizontal lines, the vertical strokes
> being added because the need to use all the space or because the need to make
> them more visible and, or, what is more iconically important because the need
> to show the lengh of the line.
> The two phonems differ in being /m/ [+grave] and /n/ [-grave],
> I would suggest a much more speculative idea that this [+grave] is represented in that
> the <m> is like a lengthened <n> to the right (if the <m> being not
> considered symetric and that a stroke to the right would be an "extension"
> whilst a stroke to left would be a "retraction" that would give a different
> figure that would correspond to the Spanish <ñ> (an <n> with a tilde) or another
> with a stroke towards the upper part, not like in the IPA), and that a stroke
> that goes from the center to the right symbolices [+grave];
> but I'm afraid there is no evidence to state that, because <j> and <y> are letters
> for [-grave] phonems and its main stroke is below the midle line (this being
> another way to symbolize [+grave]) and its lower part comes from its
> left what would symbolize [+grave]; so useless to mention it, except
> because I am thinking in making an alphabet with such symbolism.

Assuming you're talking about Gregg here ...

The notion [± grave] didn't exist in 1888, of course; John Robert Gregg
chose the shapes for the letters that he did because he tested all the
possible combinations to see which would make the most efficient signs
for clusters. He wanted it to be easy to write <mp> or <nt> or <mb> or
<nd> (and he intuited that there wasn't any practical need for a
separate velar nasal sign, IIRC), but it didn't matter how difficult it
might be to write <md> or <nb> because those sequences weren't likely to
turn up in ordinary dictation.
--
Peter T. Daniels grammatim@...