Re: Nimitta

Dear Ven. Nyanatusita,

Thanks very much for all these references, especially the Cūḷasuñṅata Sutta. I had not connected the pathavīsaññaṃ paṭicca manasi karoti ekattaṃ with the earth kasiṇa before which the commentary makes clear, kasiṇapathaviyaṃyeva paṭicca sambhūtaṃ ekaṃ saññaṃ manasi karoti. The similarites between brahmavihāra meditation and kasiṇa meditation are also remarkable, in language and content.

Ven. Dhammanandi,

I have indeed been reading Knowing and Seeing (first suggested by Dmytro) about kasina meditation and I notice that on page 51, there is a statement, "it says in the suttas that the white kasina is the best..." and on page 69 it says that "in the Anguttara Nikāya, the Buddha taught that of the our colour kasiṇas, the white kasiṇa is the best," but I have been unable to find any reference to that point in the suttas. Would you know what Ven. Pa-Auk Saydaw was referring to?

Thanks for your help and thanks to Ven. Nayanatusita for the extensive references to the kasiṇa practice of pervasion,

Mettā,

Bryan

From: "Nyanatusita nyanatusita@... [palistudy]" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2016 4:01 AM
Subject: Re: [palistudy] Nimitta

Dear Bryan,

I am not sure if this question was addressed to Jim or not, but since has not yet answered I will try to do so.

Yes, the sign is to be extended or spread through whole universe, immeasurably. Immeasurable pervasion or spreading is also done in the development of the four brahmaviharas or immeasurables (appamañña) of loving kindness, compassion, etc.
In the Pali commentaries it is said that kasi.na is called so on account of 'entirely pervading ': sakalapharaṇavasena pathavīkasiṇaṃ.
Commentarial explanations:
Majjhima Commentary:''Pervasion with the totality (kasinapharana) is the extension (pattharana) of the totality in the thousandfold world-realm''.
Patisambhida Commentary: “Therein the earth totality is the earth totality (kasina) that is reckoned as the counterpart-sign because of entirely pervading, [and] that has been produced dependent upon the earth disc”.
Digha Nikaya Commentary's explanation of the canonical description is: ''they are totalities (kasinas) in the sense of entirity (or 'wholeness', sakala). ... 'Immeasurable' is said on account of the immeasurable pervading of it. For when pervading with the mind (cetasaa), one pervades entirely. One does not take measurements (such as) 'this is the beginning of it' or 'this is the middle'.”

See also the explanation of the canonical definition at Visuddhimagga Ch. 5 § 38-39, which Nyanamoli translates as:
38. The classification “above, below, around, exclusive, measureless” applies to all kasinas; for this is said: “He perceives the earth kasina above, below, around, exclusive, measureless” (D III 268, M II 14), and so on.
39. Herein, above is upwards towards the sky’s level. Below is downwards towards the earth’s level. Around is marked off all around like the perimeter of a field. For one extends a kasina upwards only, another downwards, another all round; or for some reason another projects it thus as one who wants to see visible objects with the divine eye projects light. Hence “above, below, around” is said. The word exclusive (advaya), however, shows that anyone such state has nothing to do with any other. Just as there is water and nothing else in all directions for one who is actually in water, so too, the earth kasina is the earth kasina only; it has nothing in common with any other kasina. Similarly in each instance. Measureless means measureless intentness. He is intent upon the entirety with his mind, taking no measurements in this way: “This is its beginning, this is its middle.''
(Nyanamoli renders phara.na as 'intentness' instead of 'pervading' which fits better here; see my translation above.)

(

Ps IV 148: Kasiṇapharaṇaṃ nāma lokadhātusahasse kasiṇapattharaṇaṃ.

Paṭis-a II 450: Tattha pathavīkasiṇan ti pathavīmaṇḍalaṃ nissāya uppāditaṃ paṭibhāganimittasaṅkhātaṃ sakalapharaṇavasena pathavīkasiṇaṃ:

Paṭis-a I 80: Kasiṇan-ti sakalapharaṇavasena kasiṇamaṇḍalampi …

Vism-mht: Sakalapharaṇavasenāti niravasesapharaṇavasena

Sv 1047: … sakalaṭṭhena kasiṇāni. … Appamāṇanti idaṃ tassa pharaṇaappamāṇavasena vuttaṃ. Tañhi cetasā pharanto sakalameva pharati, na ayamassa ādi, idaṃ majjhan-ti pamāṇaṃ gaṇhātī ti.

Visuddhimagga Ch. 5 § 49: Sabbāneva uddhaṃ adho tiriyaṃ advayaṃ appamāṇanti imaṃ pabhedaṃ labhanti. Vuttañhetaṃ ‘‘pathavīkasiṇameko sañjānāti. Uddhamadhotiriyaṃ advayamappamāṇa’’ntiādi.Tattha uddhanti uparigaganatalābhimukhaṃ. Adhoti heṭṭhābhūmitalābhimukhaṃ. Tiriyanti khettamaṇḍalamiva samantā paricchinditaṃ. Ekacco hi uddhameva kasiṇaṃ vaḍḍheti, ekacco adho, ekacco samantato. Tena tena vā kāraṇena evaṃ pasāreti. Ālokamiva dibbacakkhunā rūpadassanakāmo. Tena vuttaṃ uddhamadhotiriyanti. Advayanti idaṃ pana ekassa aññabhāvānupagamanatthaṃ vuttaṃ. Yathā hi udakaṃ paviṭṭhassa sabbadisāsu udakameva hoti, na aññaṃ, evameva pathavīkasiṇaṃ pathavīkasiṇameva hoti, natthi tassa añño kasiṇasambhedoti. Eseva nayo sabbattha. Appamāṇanti idaṃ tassa pharaṇaappamāṇavasena vuttaṃ. Tañhi cetasā pharanto sakalameva pharati. Na ayamassa ādi idaṃ majjhanti pamāṇaṃ gaṇhātīti..

Canonical passages related to extension of the sign are found in the Cūḷasuññatasutta:
“Again, Ananda, a bhikkhu -- not attending to the perception of people, not attending to the perception of forest -- attends to the singleness dependent on the perception of earth. His mind enters into that perception of earth and acquires confidence, steadiness, and decision. Just as a bull’s hide becomes free from folds when fully stretched with a hundred pegs; so too, a bhikkhu - not attending to any of the ridges and hollows of this earth, to the rivers and ravines, the tracts of stumps and thorns, the mountains and uneven places - attends to the singleness dependent on the perception of earth. His mind enters into that perception of earth and acquires confidence, steadiness, and decision.”
and
Theragatha: "... pervades this earth entirely with the skeleton-perception".

M III 105: Seyyathā pi, ānanda, āsabhacammaṃ saṅkusatena suvihataṃ vigatavalikaṃ; evameva kho, ānanda, bhikkhu yaṃ imissā pathaviyā ukkūlavikkūlaṃ nadīviduggaṃ khāṇukaṇṭakaṭṭhānaṃ pabbatavisamaṃ taṃ sabbaṃ amanasikaritvā pathavīsaññaṃ paṭicca manasikaroti ekattaṃ. Tassa pathavīsaññāya cittaṃ pakkhandati pasīdati santiṭṭhati adhimuccati.
Th 18: kevalaṃ aṭṭhisaññāya aphari pathaviṃ imaṃ

The similarity between the canonical descriptions of the four brahmaviharas or immeasurables and the kasinas is obvious. In the former loving kindness is spread in all directions, while in the latter the universe is pervaded with the perception of an element or colour.

D III 268: Pathavīkasiṇameko sañjānāti, uddhaṃ adho tiriyaṃ advayaṃ appamāṇaṃ.

D I 250: ‘‘So mettāsahagatena cetasā ekaṃ disaṃ pharitvā viharati. Tathā dutiyaṃ. Tathā tatiyaṃ. Tathā catutthaṃ. Iti uddhamadho tiriyaṃ sabbadhi sabbattatāya sabbāvantaṃ lokaṃ mettāsahagatena cetasā vipulena mahaggatena appamāṇena averena abyāpajjena pharitvā viharati.

Sn verse 150: Mettañca sabbalokasmiṃ, mānasaṃ bhāvaye aparimāṇaṃ; Uddhaṃ adho ca tiriyañca, asambādhaṃ averamasapattaṃ.

I wonder if there is any parallel of the canonical description pathavīkasiṇam-eko sañjānāti, uddhamadhotiriyaṃ advayamappamāṇaṃ in the works of other schools. Buddhaghosa and Dhammapala explain eko as ekacco, 'someone', which is odd. Perhaps it originally, in a different reading, was taken in the sense of ekatta as in the Cūḷasuññatasutta's pathavīsaññaṃ paṭicca manasikaroti ekattaṃ. I will check this later.

Best wishes,
Nyanatusita

On 9/23/2016 10:28 PM, Bryan Levman bryan.levman@... [palistudy] wrote:

Thanks Jim,

It was good to get some clarification on what nimitta and kasiṇa mean, from Dmytro and Ven. Nyanatusita. I assume kasiṇa comes from Skt. kṛtsna ("all, whole, entire"), as that seems to be the object of the meditation exercise, to enlarge the paṭibhāganimitta until if fills one's entire body (perhaps the entire universe, like the brahmavihāra meditations?).

Thanks for telling us of your expierence with kasiṇas. I think I would need some instruction on it before undertaking it myself (although ānāpana is a form of the air kasiṇa as Dmytro and Ven. Nyanatusita have pointed out),

Best wishes,

bryan

From: "'Jim Anderson' jimanderson.on@... [palistudy]" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
To: Pali Study Group <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2016 7:26 PM
Subject: Re: [palistudy] Nimitta

Dear Bryan,

You wrote:
<< My understanding is that anything to do with Pali is an appropriate
subject for the Pali group, including (and especially) the meaning of key
Buddhist terms like kasiṇa. The group monitor can perhaps comment on that
point, as obviously I don't want to burden the group with irrelevant
questions. >>

Here's my comment:
I have no objection to the topic of the nimittas and kasiṇas. And as you
say, as long as it is related to Pāḷi and. I would add, no one's
complaining.

To add to the discussion:
In the early 80s, I attended a two week teacher-led meditation retreat on 5
of the 10 kasiṇas, i.e., starting with the earth element, water, fire, air
and ending with space. We each prepared our own kasiṇa devices. It was a
good retreat. About a decade later at the same centre I spent a couple of
days working with the light kasiṇa and can still remember seeing the dining
area radiating a clear light. But, of course, all this is very introductory
and getting a taste of this kind of work.

Best,
Jim