Re: Translation of Maṇisāramañjūsā introductory verses

Dear Petra,

Thank you very much. Yes, this is the kind of problems I was trying to understand. I am more or less familiar with repetitions that, apparently, are redundant, but if we look at Pali kabbas such as Pajjamadhu, it is easy to see how yamaka works, for instance: bhavatam bhavatam, the first is imp. 3rd person, second is gen.pl. of pres. part. act. of bhavati, "may it be for the beings". My suggestion that pi means even though is simply following the alankara, this "even though" simply tries to represent the apparent opposition between a word and its negation. The yamaka is the reconciliation of both. But as you say we can simply translate "and also". That is fine. These authors sometimes seem very dull if we do not try to read more in the repetition, but I think they are really trying to make puns, sometimes easy ones. For instance, in the stanzas from Simavisodhani that you quote, bodhakam bodhakam can be understood as "to the one causing bodhi, to the one who causes understanding", i.e. to the teacher who leads to bodhi. In English the pun is lost, but in Pali it works, as bodha has the literal sense of understanding but also the specific Buddhist sense of spiritual awakening. This is just my idea, but I think this fits well into the idea of what a yamaka should be.

Going back to Ariyavamsa's verses, the sutam sutam, etc. I have no clear idea. I will do more research. I am open to more suggestions or criticisms. I would simply like to see if these scholar monks were trying to do serious kabba or just easy poems. They were acquainted with the Subodhalankara and they had to be aware of the disrepute a bad yamaka would bring them into (I say that with a bit of humour as I don't think that was ever such a big issue).

Petra, could you please give some more info about Simavisodhani?

Thanks again to both Bryan and Petra. I really appreciate your comments.

with best wishes,

Aleix

2015-12-07 13:56 GMT+07:00 Petra Kieffer-Pülz kiepue@... [palistudy] <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>:

Dear Aleix, dear Bryan,

as far as I saw stanzas of this author (not so many) he is not such a cunning writer. This is why I am not sure whether he is using yamakālaṅkāras or simply the repeated words. Regarding the pi after santāsantā and after dayādayā I have taken them as „as well“ (in German sowohl als auch) which would make sense if we take both as adjectives to dhī, "a wisdom which is santāsantā as well as dayādayā". Regarding these compounds santāsantā could be understood as santā asantā (present and absent, that is every type of wisdom) or as santā santā of "utmost calmness“. I would tend to the first variant, since the second does not seem to me to be a fitting characterization of dhī. But I would have no idea what it should mean if we take it in the sense you suggested, Aleix (santā though it is asantā). The same holds true for dayādayā.

What would you suggest the first sutaṃ to mean?

By the way it seems common in later Burmese Pāli literature to present such repetitions. see the beginning of the Sīmāvisodhanī where we meet with two expressions als appearing in Maṇis

Varadam varadam aggam, diccam diccam va vanajam
Bodhakam bodhakam panam, devadevam namamaham.
Santam santam sada vattam, pajam’bhave sutam;
Nibbudam nibbudam taram, dhammavaram namamaham.
Sutam sutam bhavane yam, natanam natanaraham;
Nara’nara sada’kamsu, sabghavaram namamaham.

Regarding the second verse of Maṇis another possibility to read is yo saṅgho yo gato ’gato „the Saṅgha present [and] not [yet] present (i.e. to come)“, what would yogato gato meant „who went of from the linkage [to the world]“? Regarding -accayena I share your assumption.

Best,
Petra

Am 07.12.2015 um 02:42 schrieb Aleix Ruiz Falqués ruydaleixo@... [palistudy] <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>:

Dear Petra and Bryan,

Many thanks for your replies. Yes, in the next verse the author says I pay homage to the Dhamma and to the Sangha, finally the verb will be "this commentary is composed".
The first verse is "having paid homage to the Buddha... whose wisdom ... etc." I see that both of you take the repeated words in a distributive sense, which I didn't even consider because that would be bad poetry. But maybe you are right and the meaning is as simple as that. Still, I think that the word pi after santāsantā and dayādayā must have a meaning. The yamaka alankara usually works by playing with contraries, so I think the verse is saying santā asantā pi dhī "a wisdom that is santa, even though it is asanta" "a wisdom that is daya, even though it is also adaya". Similarly, I suspect the first sutam does not mean the same as the second. The yamaka alankara is easier to see in the second verse where he says

yassa buddhassa yaṃ dhammaṃ | yo saṃgho yo gato gato ||

sudullabhe namitvā te | kappakoṭiccayem(n?)a pi || ||

Here the yamaka is clear: we should not read yo gato gato, but yogato gato.
By the way, I think in the pada d we should read -accayena, do you agree or I am missing something?

Thank you again for your help!

Best wishes,
Aleix

2015-12-07 1:20 GMT+07:00 petra kieffer-pülz kiepue@... [palistudy] <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>:

Dear Bryan, dear Aleix,

this is the first verse of three with which the Manis starts. It's a commentary on the Abhidhammatthasaṅgaha.
In the following stanzas Dhamma and Saṅgha are mentioned, and then the fact that the author writes a commentary.
Thus it is the usual salutation of the three ratanas.

The construction ist yassa santāsantā pi dhī 'antānantāvalambato dayādayāpi, taṃ … abhivandiya
Having paid respect to the Buddha with [his] full apprehension (sutaṃ sutaṃ), who has every type (lit. present and absent - santā - asantā) of wisdom as well as utter compassion (dayā dayā) on account of [his] being based on the summit of the infinite [guṇas?],

In the following the author stresses to characteristics of the Buddha, namely karuṇa = dayā and ñāṇa = dhī.
I am not absolute certain concerning the "'nantānantāvalambato", since one would expect yassānantā, and in the text further down it is always marked if a word proceeds via the boundary of a stanza or a pada.
In the text the author speaks about ananataguṇā, so eventually something like that was in his mind.

Best,
Petra

Am 06.12.2015 um 19:05 schrieb Bryan Levman bryan.levman@... [palistudy]:

Dear Aleix,

I am not familiar with this work (it is not part of the Tipiṭaka, is it?), but you appear to be missing a main verb and this seems to be only part of a sentence.

Taking the duplicates as intensives or repetitional in meaning (Whitney §1260) it appears to be incomplete:

"Although one whose mind/devotion/wisdom is very peaceful (santā-santā) who rests on the infinite ('nanta-ananta, the infinite of the infinite), although he is very compassionate (dayā-dayā), when he has paid homage to the Buddha, to whatever he has heard (sutaṃ sutaṃ)..." or it could mean "when he has paid homage to any enlightened son..." but I don't know the context. Is there a main verb in the next verse or two?

Best wishes,

Bryan

From: "Aleix Ruiz Falqués ruydaleixo@... [palistudy]" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, December 5, 2015 9:47 PM
Subject: [palistudy] Translation of Maṇisāramañjūsā introductory verses

Dear Pāli friends,

I am translating these verses from the beginning of Maṇisāramañjūsā. There is yamakālaṅkāra in every pāda and the syntax is not so clear to me. I would like to see how other people understand them. Any idea?

santāsantā pi dhī yassa 'nantānantāvalambato ||
dayādayā pi taṃ buddhaṃ sutaṃ sutaṃ 'bhivandiya || ||
Thank you very much!
With best wishes,
Aleix