Dear All,
according to Klaus the word sutta in the beginning probably was used for a collection of Dhamma texts, whereas suttanta was used for an individual text. He understands anta in the sense of "piece, part", and refers for this to the short Petersburger Wörterbuch I, 60c, which there is only given with references as to grammarians and lexicographers. Klaus, however, mentions several examples for this usage as vanānta, vṛttānta, dṛśṭānta, or in Pāli kammanta.
Best,
Petra
Am 05.12.2014 um 00:35 schrieb Bryan Levman bryan.levman@... [palistudy]:
> Dear Ven. Ñaṇatusita,
> Yes, I agree with you, the Buddha did not look at his teachings as a culmination of the Brahmanical tradition (which some later interpreters have argued, as for example Aśvaghosa, a Brahmin convert, in his Buddhacarita). His teachings were very different. But it is possible that his disciples much later might have used suttanta in this sense, in trying to proselytize to and "convert" Brahmanical believers.
> Thank you very much for your monograph ANALYSIS OF THE BHIKKHUPĀTIMOKKHA - I look forward to reading it. In the meantime I did read the section of sutta vs. suttanta and your argument and references (e.g. von Hinüber) are quite convincing that sutta refers to the Patimokkha and suttanta to the discourses.
> Best wishes,
> Bryan
>
> From: "Nyanatusita nyanatusita@... [palistudy]" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
> To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thursday, December 4, 2014 10:22 AM
> Subject: Re: [palistudy] What's does the "anta" in Suttanta mean?
>
> Dear Bryan,
>
> But does the Buddha's te0
> Dear Bryan,
>
> But does the Buddha's teaching summarise the suttas that have come before? As far as I know, the Buddha did not see his teachings as summaries or culminations of earlier ''outside'' teachings, but dissociated himself from them.
>
> Suttanta in the Tipitaka and commentaries is used in relation to the discourses of the Buddha, e.g. Mūlapariyāyasuttanta, or Suttantapiṭaka, while sutta is only used with reference to the Patimokkha. The Suttavibhanga is the Analysis of the Sutta, i.e. the Patimokkha, of which the structure, being a string of short rules, resembles Brahmanical suttas. The usage of sutta with titles of discourses could be a fairly modern development, although I am not sure when it exactly started. The editions are not consistent and more research would need to be carried out.
>
> I have made some observations of the usage of sutta and suttanta in my work on the Patimokkha, specifically the introduction § 23, which might be of use and which you can view here:https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B08J8fzH7VNxeGcyc04tcEJlMXlUMFJ6TElhUnpxc055OXVF&authuser=0
>
> Best wishes,
> Bh Nyanatusita
>
>
>
>
>
> Margaret Cone has anta as meaning "completion, summation of" in final compound (as well as pleonastic). This would fit with the Upaniṣads as the completion of the Vedas (because they come at the end of the Vedas) and the summation of the Vedas (because they summarize the Vedic message).
>
> Similarly suttanta would make sense in the second meaning as summarizing all the suttas that have come before (Vedic and non).
>
> In the article Petra refers to, Konrad Klaus calls it a Fachbegriffe ("technical term"), so we should look at what he has to say.
> Does anyone have access to it? The U of T, as far as I can see doesn't have the book (Petra's citation below)
>
> Best wishes,
> Bryan
> Konrad Klaus, "Zu den buddhistischen literarischen Fachbegriffen sutta und suttanta", in "From Turfan to Ajanta. Felicitation volume in honour of Prof. Schlingloff, ed. E. Franco and Monika Zin, Vol. 1., Lumbini 2010, 513-526.
>
>
>
> From: "'L.S. Cousins' selwyn@... [palistudy]" <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
> To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2014 4:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [palistudy] What's does the "anta" in Suttanta mean?
>
> Bryan,
>
> I don't really see a problem with deriving sūtra from the root syū, but
> in any case sūtra in the meaning of 'thread' is attested from the
> Atharvaveda onwards. So its ultimate derivation seems irrelevant. The
> usage in Pali is from the brahmanical and means a single thread in a
> composition. In other words, just as many threads make up a tapestry, so
> many sūtras make up a composition.
>
> The use as a collective noun for a set of sūtras is certainly later; so
> the idea of a thread that unites a composition, however plausible, must
> be a later development.
>
> I too thought I remembered that a suttanta tends to be a longer sutta,
> but the usage is not very consistent.
>
> CPD has for anta:
> 7. at the end of a compound in some instances apparently pleonastic
> (padapūraṇa, Abh 791), but prob. giving a more concrete sense including
> 'completion, entirety or system' of something,
>
> Lance Cousins
>> Dear All,
>> I had always assumed that /suttanta /was formed on analogy with
>> /Vedānta /which means "end of the Vedas" and usually refers to the
>> /Upaniṣads /which encapsulates the highest knowledge of the Vedas.
>> /Suttanta /therefore means "the end of the /suttas/", meaning that the
>> Buddha's discourses are the highest knowledge of the Indic
>> /sutta/sūtra/ tradition.
>>
>> However, I have never seen it described in this fashion in the canon.
>>
>> As for the meaning of /sūtra/, as Lance has pointed out it is usually
>> taken as derived from the root /siv,/ "to sew" and is defined this way
>> in the /Atthāsalinī:/
>> /
>> /
>> /Atthānaṃ sūcanato suvuttato savanato ’tha sūdanato
>> suttāṇāsuttasabhāgato ca suttaṃ Suttan ti akkhātaṃ /(As 19^15-16 )/./
>>
>> //
>> “Because of pointing out the benefits, because of being well spoken,
>> well-heard, and because of flowing forth, because of the orders in a
>> /sutta/ and because of being like a line of orders on a string, a
>> /sutta/ is called a /Sutta/.”
>> But if it were derived from the root /siv/syū/ (“to sew”) one would
>> have expected the form /s//yūtra,/ with the /–tra /suffix of means or
>> instrument ( as in /gātra/, means of going = limb; or /pattra/, means
>> of flying = wing, or /pātra/, means of drinking = cup). In Vedic, the
>> past participle of /syū /is /syūta /(“having been sewn”) and the
>> absolutive is /syūtvā /(“having sown”), so why should the /–tra/ form
>> be /sūtra/? with the /-y- /omitted?
>> I think a more plausible etymology is that the word is derived from
>> the root /sū,/ “to impel, to urge, vivify, consecrate, authorize.” In
>> this derivation /sū-tra/ is the *means of *urging, impelling,
>> authorizing, etc., or “that by which something is [verbed, i.e.
>> impelled, authorized, etc.],” and by extension, "that which should be
>> followed." These latter definitions are appropriate to both the
>> Buddhist use of the word /sutta/ (which, as has long been remarked,
>> significantly differs from the Brahmanical use of the term, which
>> refers to a short, pithy aphorism), and the Brahmancial usage.
>>
>> Walleser made the suggestion that it was derived from /su+ ukta
>> /("well said") /= sūkta > /Pāli /sutta /in 1914 and Norman also
>> repeated this in his Philological Approach lecture (1997). That is
>> also a possibility.
>> It could also be derived from the Vedic /sūtta/(= /su-datta/, “well
>> given”) or the verb root /sṛ/ past participle /sūrta/ (“bright,
>> illuminated”. /Sutta /is a homynym in Pāli and Middle Indic and could
>> refer to many different roots, as shown above (it also of course means
>> /supta /> Pālī /sutta/, "asleep") which we have been discussing in
>> other posts),
>> Best wishes,
>> Bryan
>
>
>
>
>
>
> #yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212 -- #yiv5296332212ygrp-mkp {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:10px 0;padding:0 10px;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-mkp hr {border:1px solid #d8d8d8;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-mkp #yiv5296332212hd {color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:700;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-mkp #yiv5296332212ads {margin-bottom:10px;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-mkp .yiv5296332212ad {padding:0 0;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-mkp .yiv5296332212ad p {margin:0;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-mkp .yiv5296332212ad a {color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-sponsor #yiv5296332212ygrp-lc {font-family:Arial;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-sponsor #yiv5296332212ygrp-lc #yiv5296332212hd {margin:10px 0px;font-weight:700;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-sponsor #yiv5296332212ygrp-lc .yiv5296332212ad {margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212actions {font-family:Verdana;font-size:11px;padding:10px 0;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212activity {background-color:#e0ecee;float:left;font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;padding:10px;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212activity span {font-weight:700;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212activity span:first-child {text-transform:uppercase;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212activity span a {color:#5085b6;text-decoration:none;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212activity span span {color:#ff7900;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212activity span .yiv5296332212underline {text-decoration:underline;}#yiv5296332212 .yiv5296332212attach {clear:both;display:table;font-family:Arial;font-size:12px;padding:10px 0;width:400px;}#yiv5296332212 .yiv5296332212attach div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5296332212 .yiv5296332212attach img {border:none;padding-right:5px;}#yiv5296332212 .yiv5296332212attach label {display:block;margin-bottom:5px;}#yiv5296332212 .yiv5296332212attach label a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5296332212 blockquote {margin:0 0 0 4px;}#yiv5296332212 .yiv5296332212bold {font-family:Arial;font-size:13px;font-weight:700;}#yiv5296332212 .yiv5296332212bold a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5296332212 dd.yiv5296332212last p a {font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv5296332212 dd.yiv5296332212last p span {margin-right:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:700;}#yiv5296332212 dd.yiv5296332212last p span.yiv5296332212yshortcuts {margin-right:0;}#yiv5296332212 div.yiv5296332212attach-table div div a {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5296332212 div.yiv5296332212attach-table {width:400px;}#yiv5296332212 div.yiv5296332212file-title a, #yiv5296332212 div.yiv5296332212file-title a:active, #yiv5296332212 div.yiv5296332212file-title a:hover, #yiv5296332212 div.yiv5296332212file-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5296332212 div.yiv5296332212photo-title a, #yiv5296332212 div.yiv5296332212photo-title a:active, #yiv5296332212 div.yiv5296332212photo-title a:hover, #yiv5296332212 div.yiv5296332212photo-title a:visited {text-decoration:none;}#yiv5296332212 div#yiv5296332212ygrp-mlmsg #yiv5296332212ygrp-msg p a span.yiv5296332212yshortcuts {font-family:Verdana;font-size:10px;font-weight:normal;}#yiv5296332212 .yiv5296332212green {color:#628c2a;}#yiv5296332212 .yiv5296332212MsoNormal {margin:0 0 0 0;}#yiv5296332212 o {font-size:0;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212photos div {float:left;width:72px;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212photos div div {border:1px solid #666666;height:62px;overflow:hidden;width:62px;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212photos div label {color:#666666;font-size:10px;overflow:hidden;text-align:center;white-space:nowrap;width:64px;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212reco-category {font-size:77%;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212reco-desc {font-size:77%;}#yiv5296332212 .yiv5296332212replbq {margin:4px;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-actbar div a:first-child {margin-right:2px;padding-right:5px;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:Arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-mlmsg select, #yiv5296332212 input, #yiv5296332212 textarea {font:99% Arial, Helvetica, clean, sans-serif;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-mlmsg pre, #yiv5296332212 code {font:115% monospace;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-mlmsg #yiv5296332212logo {padding-bottom:10px;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-msg p a {font-family:Verdana;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-msg p#yiv5296332212attach-count span {color:#1E66AE;font-weight:700;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-reco #yiv5296332212reco-head {color:#ff7900;font-weight:700;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-reco {margin-bottom:20px;padding:0px;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-sponsor #yiv5296332212ov li a {font-size:130%;text-decoration:none;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-sponsor #yiv5296332212ov li {font-size:77%;list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-sponsor #yiv5296332212ov ul {margin:0;padding:0 0 0 8px;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-text {font-family:Georgia;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-text p {margin:0 0 1em 0;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-text tt {font-size:120%;}#yiv5296332212 #yiv5296332212ygrp-vital ul li:last-child {border-right:none !important;}#yiv5296332212
>