Re: vibhūta in AN 11.10

Dear Khristos,

Thank you so much for your detailed and thoughtful contribution. I feel
luckly to be able to learn more, or be reminded of something I have lost,
everyday. :-)

You are right that rūpa may not only refer to the material itself but in
some cases the perception of it.

With mettā
Chanida

On 17 October 2012 00:12, Khristos Nizamis <nizamisk@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Dear Lennart, and All,
>
> I wish I had more time to devote to this very interesting discussion;
> unfortunately, unlike some of you guys, I can only do things much more
> slowly and interruptedly. There are quite a few things I'd like to
> contribute, but I have to "steal time" from daily life to read, to check
> references, to translate, etc., in order to get things clear and cogent.
> I'd much rather be doing this than other things, but, well, so it goes.
> However, I felt like making a couple of comments and suggestions here.
>
> First, thanks for the references to Ven. Ñāṇananda's *Nibbāna: The Mind
> Stilled*: you have a penchant for throwing this text into a discussion, and
> always at a timely moment and in a very pertinent way. I've read some
> parts of that work before, but unfortunately not yet all of it. But I have
> now read through Sermons 11, 16 and 17 very closely and with deep
> interest. I've made quite a few notes, but it's impossible to go through
> these here; only to mention one or two things that might be helpful, or
> provocative, about the v-bhū issue.
>
> Second, thanks also for presenting the excellent Neumann quotations.
> Incidentally, I don't find any fundamental incompatibility between what
> Neumann says and what Ven. Ñāṇananda says.
>
>
> In reference to our passage above Being and Non-Being are the boundaries
> > of any possible perception: bhavo and vibhavo or bhavo and abhavo as
> > anti-thesis. Very clearly to be differentiated has to be the other
> vibhavo,
> > when it appears in the the presentation of the threefold thirst, where it
> > appears in a climactical triad as kamatanha, bhavatanha, vibhavatanha:
> > sensual thirst, thirst for existence, thirst for being well. The "vi-" is
> > not a preposition of separation but a preposition of
> increase/strengthening.
>
> When I read this, my immediate instinct was that Neumann's reading 'felt
> very right'. It makes very good sense, in this case; it really feels right
> here. More from Neumann, followed by your comment:
>
>
> "This usage of a preposition with opposing meanings is something which can
> be found quite often in Indian languages and is well known; it has
> developed into two opposite directions, similarly to our (German) prefix
> "ver-", for instance in "vermoegen, vergnuegen" vs. "verderben, vergessen"
> etc and in a double meaning "versehen, versprechen", etc. Vibhavo as
> Development, Power, Regency, Fullness, Abundance, Happiness is the more
> basic idea (see footnote 697) while the meaning of vibhavo = abhavo is
> relatively rare and usually appears as an anti-thesis.
>
> Interestingly enough, in his comment on MN 44, Neumann mentions that the
> "vibhavo" can also "equally often" appear in the negative sense and in that
> case resemble the abhava as in "bhavabhava":
>
> Indeed, and I would think that the following from MN 11 (at M I 65) is just
> one obvious example:
>
> dvemā, bhikkhave, diṭṭhiyo — bhavadiṭṭhi ca vibhavadiṭṭhi ca. ye hi keci,
> bhikkhave, samaṇā vā brāhmaṇā vā bhavadiṭṭhiṃ allīnā bhavadiṭṭhiṃ upagatā
> bhavadiṭṭhiṃ ajjhositā, vibhavadiṭṭhiyā te paṭiviruddhā. ye hi keci,
> bhikkhave, samaṇā vā brāhmaṇā vā vibhavadiṭṭhiṃ allīnā vibhavadiṭṭhiṃ
> upagatā vibhavadiṭṭhiṃ ajjhositā, bhavadiṭṭhiyā te paṭiviruddhā.
>
> There are these two views, monks: *bhavadiṭṭhi* and *vibhavadiṭṭhi*.
> Whichever
> recluses or brahmins are stuck to *bhavadiṭṭhi*, accept *bhavadiṭṭhi*,
> grasp on to *bhavadiṭṭhi*, they are opposed to *vibhavadiṭṭhi*. Whichever
> recluses or brahmins are stuck to *vibhavadiṭṭhi*, accept *vibhavadiṭṭhi*,
> grasp on to *vibhavadiṭṭhi*, they are opposed to *bhavadiṭṭhi*.
>
> However, while the bhava/abhava opposition might resemble the bhava/vibhava
> opposition, I suspect that they are not synonymous. I supect that whereas
> the a- of abhava is a negation, the vi- of vibhava has a different kind of
> 'negative' value and sense, related to its radical sense, which sensse
> informs also the 'positive' meanings of the 'same word' (if we may really
> call it that).
>
> On the other hand, with all due respects to Lance, when I read Lance's
> recent post of his translation of Nidd I, II 278:
>
> rūpe vibhūte na phusanti phassāti. rūpe vibhūte vibhāvite atikkante
> samatikkante vītivatte pañca phassā na phusanti — cakkhusamphasso,
> sotasamphasso, ghānasamphasso, jivhāsamphasso, kāyasamphassoti — rūpe
> vibhūte na phusanti phassā.
>
> as
>
> *When materiality is transcended, contacts do not function*: when
> materiality has been transcended, revealed, passed beyond, gone beyond,
> surpassed <in the formless attainments> the five kinds of contact do not
> function: eye contact, ear contact, nose contact, tongue contact, bodily
> contact. So when materiality is transcended, contacts do not function.
>
> and so, also, when Chanida similarly translated: ‘when form is transcended,
> contacts do not contact’, I intuitively could not agree with taking the
> sense of 'rūpe vibhūte' as 'materiality has been transcended'. Of course,
> it's not that I don't like the idea of materiality being transcended: that
> sounds wonderful to me, no problem. Nor is it that I would like 'vibhūta'
> to mean that materiality itself is somehow 'destroyed' or made to 'cease to
> exist'. That, too, might possibly be a good thing ... but obviously, my
> concern is somewhat deeper than a matter of personal taste or preference.
>
> I just don't think 'transcended' is appropriate or right for 'vibhūta' in
> this kind of context (and of course I'm ultimately pointing back to AN 11.9
> and the nexus of connections this has not only with the other 'samādhi
> suttas' in question, but various other fundamental concepts in the doctrine
> of the Nikāyas, especially as clustered around the central concept and role
> of 'phassa').
>
> I feel that the idea of 'transcending' is certainly right, here, but I also
> feel that if 'vibhūta' is translated as 'transcended' something important
> will be lost. I think it's important to retain the distinction between
> 'vibhūta' (and certain other derivations from vi-bhū) and various other
> terms; including 'samatikkama', which has a very precise and significant
> role in the descriptions of the (arūpa) jhānas, and which I would rather
> translate as 'having transcended'.
>
> I'll mention only two reasons for this: the first is
> linguistic/etymological but also, in virtue of that,
> doctrinal/philosophical; the second is more phenomenological.
>
> (1) The English 'transcend' derives of course from Latin trāns, 'across,
> through, beyond' + scandere, 'to climb'. Thus, 'sur-mount' is in fact
> virtually a translation of 'trans-cend'. Yet, the term 'transcend' has a
> 'philosophical' relevance that is valid and important here; 'surmount', in
> English, has a different connotation, which is still relevant, but not
> quite as appropriate, phenomenologically. There is a fairly precise Pāli
> correlate for the literal sense of 'transcend': 'atikkamati': ati, 'over,
> above' + kamati, 'step, walk, go, progress' (cf. Cone 2001). But the more
> typical Pāli term, which I think has the technical sense of 'transcending'
> in the meditative context, is 'samatikkamati' (andthe gerund
> 'samatikkama'), where I take the prefix 'sam' to function as an intensifier
> with the sense 'thoroughly, fully, perfectly'. This close semantic match
> between 'transcend' and 'samatikkamati' may not be a mere fortunate
> coincidence. It may derive from and reflect a certain 'naturalness' in the
> way that we are forced to use language metaphorically in order to indicate
> certain ideas or experiences.
>
> In contrast, etymologically and, even more importantly, phenomenologically,
> 'vi-bhūta' suggests something quite distinct and quite distinctly different
> from 'samatikkamma'. I suggested before that a-bhava may not be a synonym
> of vi-bhava when the latter is used negatively. It's interesting to note
> that vi-bhūta is not usually taken as a synonym of a-bhūta, 'untrue, false'
> (the idea being that something doesn't exist, is not the case). And
> although 'abhūta' is grammatically (and, very strictly speaking,
> semantically) the negation of 'bhūta', they are not used as simple
> contraries. More on this later.
>
> (2) The phenomenological implications: I feel that there may well be a
> deeper phenomenological lesson to be learnt from the use of the term
> vibhūta in contexts such as 'rūpe vibhūte na phusanti phassāti' and '
> pathaviyaṃ pathavisaññā vibhūtā hoti'; but not only here, where the term
> actually occurs, but also in many other suttas, where the same idea may be
> indicated, although not with this particular word. Just one of a number of
> good examples is the very important passage in SN 35.117 (S IV 98) which
> begins:
>
> tasmātiha, bhikkhave, se āyatane veditabbe yattha cakkhu ca nirujjhati,
> rūpasaññā ca virajjati...
>
> Therefore, monks, that sphere/base should be know, where the eye ceases
> [nirujjhati], and the perception of material form virajjati...
>
> And so also for the other five sense faculties and their
> object-perceptions.
>
> I think Ven. Ñāṇananda (who, like Ven. Bodhi, follows the versions of Ee
> and Se; Be has 'nirujjhati' throughout), in his comments on this passage
> (p. 450), has grasped the right idea, here, and I'll come back to this in a
> moment.
>
> Actually, I think that there is no a significant distinction between the
> phenomenological sense of the expression 'rūpe vibhūte' and 'pathaviyaṃ
> pathavisaññā vibhūtā hoti': I don't think that the former is necessarily
> referring to 'real external materiality' while the second is referring to
> the 'mere inner mental perception of materiality', and that there is a
> distinction to be made between vibhūta as applied to 'real matter' and
> vibhūta as applied to a 'mental act', i.e., 'perception'. Rather, 'rūpe
> vibhūte' may be just a poetic shorthand indicating 'rūpa' as a phenomenon
> of perception, a perceptual phenomenon. The phenomenological point is vital
> because it's about what we actually experience, whether in the 'ordinary'
> state of mind or in any 'meditative' states of mind. Can anyone say that
> they've encountered 'real, raw materiality' outside of their consciousness?
> No, of course not: 'raw materiality' is a particular kind and class of
> phenomena.
>
> So, I think it's quite right to understand the meaning of 'rūpe vibhūte'
> and 'pathaviyaṃ pathavisaññā vibhūtā hoti' under the concept of
> 'transcending'; but I think that the term itself may be telling us
> something more, something more specific and phenomenologically relevant;
> something that might be useful to us in our own analyses of, reflections
> upon, our experiences and states, whether non-meditative or meditative.
>
> I think this sense must be connected also to those 'negative' senses of
> 'vi-bhū' that we find in some suttas as in the examples previously cited,
> e.g.: the very clear example in DN 1 (D I 34): santi, bhikkhave, eke
> samaṇabrāhmaṇā ucchedavādā sato sattassa ucchedaṃ vināsaṃ vibhavaṃ
> paññapenti sattahi vatthūhi; the future tense form *vibhavissati* in SN
> 22.55 (at S III 56*)*:*
>
> *rūpaṃ vibhavissatīti yathābhūtaṃ pajānāti. vedanā... saññā... saṅkhārā...
> viññāṇaṃ vibhavissatīti yathābhūtaṃ pajānāti.
>
> He knows as it really is that 'form vibhavissati', ... that 'feeling..',
> 'perception...', 'constitutions...', ... '(sensory) consciousness
> vibhavissati'.
>
> It's important to note that this passage follows immediately in a sequence
> in which the khandhas are described as anicca, dukkha, anattā, saṅkhata.
> Then follows:
>
> so rūpassa vibhavā, vedanāya vibhavā, saññā vibhavā, saṅkhārānaṃ vibhavā,
> viññāṇassa vibhavā, evaṃ kho, bhikkhu, ‘no cassaṃ, no ca me siyā,
> nābhavissa, na me bhavissatī’ti — evaṃ adhimuccamāno bhikkhu chindeyya
> orambhāgiyāni saṃyojanānī ti.
>
> Due to the vibhava of material form, the vibhava of feeling, the
> vibhava ofperception, the vibhava of constitutions, and the vibhava of
> consciousness,
> that monk, resolving thus, 'It might not be, it might not be for me, it
> will not be, it will not be for me', that monk can cut off the lower
> fetters.
>
> I have to wind this up, so let me end by coming back to Ven. Ñāṇananda's
> comment on the sense of virajjati in SN 35.117 (S IV 98):
>
> tasmātiha, bhikkhave, se āyatane veditabbe yattha cakkhu ca nirujjhati,
> rūpasaññā ca virajjati...
>
> Therefore, monks, that sphere/base should be know, where the eye ceases
> [nirujjhati], and the perception of material form virajjati...
>
> He writes
>
> "There is some peculiarity in the very wording of the passage, when it
> says, for instance, that the eye ceases, *cakkhuñca nirujjhati *and
> perceptions of form fade away, *rūpasaññā ca virajjati*. As we once pointed
> out, the word *virāga*, usually rendered by ‘detachment,’ has a nuance
> equivalent to ‘fading away’ or ‘decolouration.’ Here that nuance is clearly
> evident. When the eye ceases, perceptions of forms fade away." (p. 450)
> His use of the term 'de-colouration' is very apt: although here 'dis-' in
> 'dis-colouration' would be etymologically closer to vi- in 'vi-rāga' and
> 'vi-rajjati', in English, of course, 'discolouration' suggests a change of
> colour, not a loss of colour. So, 'de-colouration' is much better for
> suggesting the sense of a 'loss of rāga'; where 'rāga' (from rañj) means,
> most literally, 'the act of colouring or dyeing; colour; hue, tint, dye,
> (especially) red colour, redness' (MW, cf. also Whitney, *Roots*, 'raj',
> 'rañj', 'colour'). It seems to me that this might give us a deep hint into
> a possible sense (or at least connotation) for the 'negative' uses of
> vi-bhū, as in, e.g., vi-bhūta and vi-bhava in certain very precise early
> Buddhist context. Namely, a sense of 'de-being', 'de-becoming'. If we
> take 'virajjati' in the above passage as 'fading away' in the sense of
> 'de-colouring', hence the 'virāga' of 'rūpa-saññā', 'sadda-saññā', etc. may
> parallel in sense (and phenomenology) the vibhūta of the same; a certain
> 'bleaching of being', which is not just a fading of affect (desire,
> attachment, etc.), but a fading of the actual intentional of the
> object/phenomenon that can lead to the actual disappearance of the
> perception of the phenomenon. This would be a 'transcending' that not
> merely in metaphorical sense, but an actual phenomenological sense. Is
> that really possible and plausible? From a phenomenological perspective, I
> believe it is, and I also think that the suttas already contain and
> elegantly explain the principle for the 'de-being' of experience.
>
> With metta,
> Khristos
>
> On 17 October 2012 01:55, Lennart Lopin <novalis78@...> wrote:
>
> > **
>
> >
> >
> > Dear Jim, Lance
> >
> >
> > > As I'll be leaving in a few days and be offline for 3 weeks, I don't
> have
> > > much time left for this interesting descussion on the *real* meaning of
> > > "vībhūtā" in AN 11.10. However, I'd like to add a few observations from
> > my
> > > own investigation of the meaning so far which may be of interest to
> some.
> > > Keep in mind that in addition to the Tipiṭaka I also have a high regard
> > for
> > > the commentaries as well as the Pali grammar tradition...
> > >
> > > A look at the commentary to AN 11.10 with the gloss "pākaṭā" for
> > "vibhūtā"
> > > will lead one to Vism III.109-114 with its Mahāṭīkā explanation of
> > > "vibhūtā"
> > > as follows:
> > >
> > > " Vibhūtāti vipulārammaṇatāya supākaṭā, vaḍḍhitanimittatāya
> > > appamāṇārammaṇabhāvena paribyattāti attho."
> > >
> > > "paribyattā" is obviously a synonym of "pākaṭā".
> > >
> > > Now in the Padamālā of the Saddanīti one will find much on the root
> "bhū"
> > > and probably every word derived from it with explanations of their
> > > meanings. Of particular interest is the explanation of "vibhavo" in the
> > > five meanings: *dhanaṃ*, nibbānaṃ, sampatti, vināso, and ucchedadiṭṭhi.
> >
> > > The
> > > meaning of "vibhavo" that comes closest to the Mahāṭīkā explanation of
> > > "vibhūtā" is "dhanaṃ". Here is the Padamālā explanation:
> > >
> > > * dhanaṃ *pana bhavanti vaḍḍhanti vuddhiṃ viruuḷhiṃ vepullaṃ āpajjanti
> >
> > > sattā
> > > etenāti vibhavo.``asītiko.tivibhavassa brāhmaṇassa putto hutvaa
> > > nibbattī''ti
> > > idametassatthassa sādhakaṃ vacanaṃ. idaṃ pana pariyāyavacanaṃ --
> > >
> > > dhanaṃ saṃ vibhavo dabbaṃ, saapateyyaṃ pariggaho.
> > > oḍḍaṃ bhaṇḍaṃ sakaṃ attho, iccete dhanavācakā..
> > >
> > > Not sure if any of this helps. "vibhūṭā" in the sense of "abundantly
> > > increased" ?? The Vism passage explains the difference between vibhūtā
> > and
> > > avibhūtā.
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > >
> > > Jim
> > >
> >
> > What I found quite fascinating is that Karl Eugen Neumann's singular
> > interpretation of "vibhavataṇhā" as "Wohlseinsdurst" (thirst for
> > well-being) seems to be reflected in the passage you quote above
> (glossing
> > vibhavo with dhana) - and adds to what Lance has mentioned about Sanskrit
> > sources prior to Pali. I am pretty sure Neumann was aware of the passage
> > Jim quoted, though he does not mention it (he is known to have rejected
> the
> > commentaries in his translation work having a very low opinion of
> > Buddhaghosa. He usually tried to translate based on parallel passages
> > (context) or his knowledge of other old Sanskrit parallels). In his notes
> > on a passage in the DN 33 on *bhava *and *abhava *he writes:
> >
> > *Bei uns oben sind Dasein und Nichtsein die Grenzpunkte jeder möglichen
> > > Betrachtung: bhavo und vibhavo, oder bhavo und abhavo, als Antithese.
> > Wohl
> > > davon zu unterscheiden ist der andere vibhavo, bei der Darstellung des
> > > dreifachen Durstes, in der gesteigerten Triade kāmataṇhā bhavataṇhā
> > > vibhavataṇhā: Geschlechtsdurst, Daseinsdurst, Wohlseinsdurst. Da
> > > ist vi nicht die Präposition der Trennung sondern die der Verstärkung.*
> >
> > my rough translation:
> >
> > "In reference to our passage above Being and Non-Being are the boundaries
> > > of any possible perception: bhavo and vibhavo or bhavo and abhavo as
> > > anti-thesis. Very clearly to be differentiated has to be the other
> > vibhavo,
> > > when it appears in the the presentation of the threefold thirst, where
> it
> > > appears in a climactical triad as kamatanha, bhavatanha, vibhavatanha:
> > > sensual thirst, thirst for existence, thirst for being well. The "vi-"
> is
> > > not a preposition of separation but a preposition of
> > increase/strengthening.
> >
> > Neumann goes on to say that:
> >
> > "This usage of a preposition with opposing meanings is something which
> can
> > be found quite often in Indian languages and is well known; it has
> > developed into two opposite directions, similarly to our (German) prefix
> > "ver-", for instance in "vermoegen, vergnuegen" vs. "verderben,
> vergessen"
> > etc and in a double meaning "versehen, versprechen", etc. Vibhavo as
> > Development, Power, Regency, Fullness, Abundance, Happiness is the more
> > basic idea (see footnote 697) while the meaning of vibhavo = abhavo is
> > relatively rare and usually appears as an anti-thesis. This double
> > relationship was also known to Oldenburg in his first edition of "Buddha"
> > but he later changed his mind, saying that he was mistaken...and thus
> > shortens the triad into an anti-thesis.
> >
> > > *Diese je nachdem entgegengesetzte Geltung ein und derselben
> Präposition
> > > ist im indischen Sprachgebrauch häufig anzutreffen, allbekannt; sie hat
> > > analog wie bei unserem ver- nach einander gegenüberstehenden Seiten
> sich
> > > entwickelt, vergl. vermögen, vergnügen – verderben, vergessen, und in
> > > doppelter Bedeutung: versehn, versprechen u.a.m. Vibhavo als
> Entfaltung,
> > > Macht, Herrschaft, Fülle, Glückseligkeit, gibt die überaus oft
> > vorkommende
> > > gewöhnliche Vorstellung, siehe die Belege in der Anm. 697<
> >
> http://www.zeno.org/Philosophie/M/Gotamo+Buddho/Die+Reden+Gotamo+Buddhos/Aus+der+L%C3%A4ngeren+Sammlung/Anmerkungen
> > >,
> > > während der Gegensinn dazu, vibhavo = abhavo, recht selten erscheint,
> nur
> > > wie in der Antithese bei uns oben. Dieses doppelte Verhältnis hatte
> > > OLDENBERG einst erkannt, S. 130 der 1. Aufl. seines »Buddha«, ist aber
> > > davon abgekommen und redet nun immer, 6. Aufl., S. 147, durch ein
> > > Mißverständnis verleitet, vom gesteigerten vibhavo als von einer
> > > Vergänglichkeit, nennt die vibhavataṇhā den »Vergänglichkeitsdurst«,
> ohne
> > > den genetisch bedingten Unterschied noch zu merken, verkürzt also
> > beliebig
> > > den Begriff in der Triade auf den in der Antithese. Eine mehr und mehr
> > > vertiefte Übung und Vertrautheit mit der Ausdrucksweise der älteren,
> und
> > > nicht nur buddhistischen, Texte wird aber bald das schlecht angebrachte
> > > einseitige Zustutzen als eine gewaltsame Beschränkung erkennen, die dem
> > > indischen Sprachcharakter, wie schon gesagt, so fremd wie dem deutschen
> > ist.
> > > Der Daseinsdurst, bhavataṇhā, und seine weitere Entwicklung zum
> > > Wohlseinsdurst, vibhavataṇhā, ein Dürsten, das eben auch noch die
> > höchsten
> > > himmlischen Seligkeiten durchzieht,... (Source: *
> > >
> >
> http://www.zeno.org/Philosophie/M/Gotamo+Buddho/Die+Reden+Gotamo+Buddhos/Aus+der+L%C3%A4ngeren+Sammlung/Anmerkungen
> > > )
> >
> > His other comment on the same topic, also found in his DN translation
> runs
> > like this:
> >
> > The Thirst for Well-being, the thirst to be well, vibhavatanha, was
> wrongly
> > > identified as "desire for impermanence" (Oldenberg in his comments to
> > > "Buddha" 5th ed.) or even worse "desire for (eternal) death" in
> Pischel's
> > > "Leben und Lehre des Buddha". The 44th discourse of the MN [see
> Neumann's
> > > comment there copied below] amkes this exegetical mis-understanding
> > > apparent. *Vibhavo = vibhūti*, that is Well-being, wealth and abundance
> > > is here the only possible most often used concept, as by the way, can
> > also
> > > verified from the Jatakam (I p. 145, II p. 283 etc) as mahavibhavo,
> > > bahuvibhavo, etc. and also much earlier in the early ruti, from which
> I,
> > to
> > > bring just one example, may quote the Prasnopanisat V 4: "* sa somaloke
> > > vibhūtim anubhūya punar āvartate*." The Wellbeing desire, vibhavatanha
> is
> > > the increased desire to be, bhavatanha: the sensual pleasure desire is
> > the
> > > even more basic fundamental desire on which these two are based. This
> > view,
> > > that from the senusal desire the whole existence with all its worlds
> and
> > > gods have come to be, was already an idea that the sages of ancient
> times
> > > proclaimed in their verses of the Rksamhita, X1294:kāmas tad agre
> > > samavartatādhi etc. with poetic emphasis but without any further
> > > deductions or just those of cosmological nature. This ancient famous
> > verse
> > > was probably also known to Gotamo, probably in his youth when during a
> > > presentation of vedic priests and their students of which there many
> > living
> > > in Kapilavatthu (see DN 3).
> >
> > *697<
> >
> http://www.zeno.org/Philosophie/M/Gotamo+Buddho/Die+Reden+Gotamo+Buddhos/Aus+der+L%C3%A4ngeren+Sammlung/2.+Teil.+Gro%C3%9Fes+Buch/22.+Rede.+Die+Pfeiler+der+Einsicht#N8952
> > >
> > Der
> > > Wohlseinstrieb, Durst nach Wohlsein, vibhavataṇhā, ist unzugehörig,
> bez.
> > > auf Grundlage des hier wie so oft in die Irre schweifenden Kommentars
> von
> > > OLDENBERG, Buddha, 5. Aufl. S. 150, als »Vergänglichkeitsdurst«, von
> > > PISCHEL, Leben und Lehre des Buddha S. 28, gar als »Durst nach (ewigem)
> > > Tode« verkannt worden: die [749]<
> > http://www.zeno.org/Philosophie/L/Buddhos+Bd.+2> 44.
> > > Rede der Mittleren Sammlung, S. 332, nebst Anm. 35<
> >
> http://www.zeno.org/Philosophie/M/Gotamo+Buddho/Die+Reden+Gotamo+Buddhos/Aus+der+L%C3%A4ngeren+Sammlung/Anmerkungen
> > >,
> > > deckt das exegetische Mißverständnis auf. Vibhavo = vibhūti,d.i.
> > > Wohlsein, Reichtum, Machtfülle, ist hier der einzig mögliche
> > > sprachgebräuchliche Begriff, wie er sich übrigens auch aus dem Jātakam
> > gut
> > > nachweisen läßt, I p. 145, II p. 283 etc., als mahāvibhavo,
> bahuvibhavo,
> > usw.;
> > > und ebenso reichlich schon in der frühen ruti, aus der ich, nur
> > > beispielsweise, Prasnopaniṣat V 4 anführe: sa somaloke vibhūtim
> anubhūya
> > > punar āvartate. Der Wohlseinstrieb, vibhavataṇhā, ist der gesteigerte
> > > Daseinstrieb, bhavataṇhā: der Geschlechtstrieb, kāmataṇhā, ist das
> > > Urphänomen dazu. Diese Ansicht, daß nämlich aus dem Geschlechtstrieb
> das
> > > ganze Dasein mit allen Welten und Göttern hervorgesprossen sei, hatte
> > schon
> > > ein Seher der Vorzeit in einem Spruche der Ṛksaṃhitā verkündet, X 1294:
> > kāmas
> > > tad agre samavartatādhi usw., mit tiefer dichterischer Ergriffenheit,
> > > natürlich ohne weitere Schlüsse zu ziehn, oder doch nur solche
> > > kosmogonischer Art. Der Spruch ist altberühmt und war gewiß auch von
> > Gotamo
> > > gehört worden, wahrscheinlich schon in seiner Jugend, beim Vortrag
> > > vedischer Haus- und Hofpriester und ihrer Schüler, an denen es in
> > > Kapilavatthu nicht gefehlt hat. Vergl. die 3. Rede S. 60. – Die vorher
> > > gekennzeichnete Gnügensgier, der Gnügensreiz, nandirāgo, wird in einem
> > > zugehörigen Gleichnisse des Saṃyuttakanikāyo (vol. IV p. 173/4) einem
> > > verkappten Mörder verglichen, der mit gezücktem Dolche nachschleicht:
> so
> > > ist osahagatā,overbunden, zu verstehn, als eine solche Begleitung. Cf.
> > > Bruchst. d.R.v. 664 A.i.f.*
> >
> > Hellmuth Hecker has a discussion on Neumann's choice and his own analysis
> > on the subject. Unfortunately I do not have a copy of his book "Die Lehre
> > des Buddha und Karl Eugen Neumann" (Google Books Snipet link:
> > here<
> >
> http://books.google.com/books?id=73RtAAAAIAAJ&q=hecker+neumann+%22nicht+stichhaltig%22&dq=hecker+neumann+%22nicht+stichhaltig%22&source=bl&ots=fJ7jAcadVw&sig=Rojyq5J2063YTc0XI9wz-vv2plE&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1G19UM6KDozo8QT184GABg&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA
> > >
> > )
> >
> > Interestingly enough, in his comment on MN 44, Neumann mentions that the
> > "vibhavo" can also "equally often" appear in the negative sense and in
> that
> > case resemble the abhava as in "bhavabhava":
> >
> > [image: Inline image 1]
> >
> > mettāya,
> >
> > Lennart
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> 
>


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