Re: update

Dear Jim,
Op 4-aug-2012, om 18:00 heeft Jim Anderson het volgende geschreven:
>
> Kiṃ kāraṇā gacchatīti cittakiriyavāyodhātuvipphārena 
> gacchati. Tasmā esa
> evaṃ pajānāti–“gacchāmī”ti cittaṃ uppajjati, taṃ 
> vāyaṃ janeti, vāyo
> viññattiṃ janeti, cittakiriyavāyodhātuvipphārena 
> sakalakāyassa purato
> abhinīhāro gamananti vuccati. --- Sv 2.357 BCS CD version. (= PTS 
> Sv II 767)
>
> Some Thera (The Way of Mindfulness, p.78) translates a similar 
> passage from
> the commentary to MN 10 as follows:
>
> << On account of what does the going take place? On account of the 
> diffusion
> of the process of oscillation born of mental activity. Because of 
> that this
> yogi knows thus: If there arises the thought, "I shall go," that 
> thought
> produces the process of oscillation; the process of oscillation 
> produces
> expression (the bodily movement which indicates going and so 
> forth). The
> moving on of the whole body through the diffusion of the process of
> oscillation is called going. >>
>
> The part I'm having trouble understanding (among others) is "taṃ 
> vāyaṃ
> janeti, vāyo viññattiṃ janeti," which I translate as: "this 
> (citta)
> produces the wind (-element), the wind (-element in turn) produces or
> generates (bodily) expression or communication."
>
----------
N: The vi~n~natti ruupas are not concrete matter like the four great 
elements. They are qualities of ruupa, the alteration of ruupa, and 
as such they can be classified among the vikaara ruupas (lightness 
etc.). They are " a certain unique change of the great elements".
As you know there are in a process of cittas seven javana cittas 
(kusala, akusala or kiriya of the arahat). The first six produce the 
element of wind and the seventh one produces the vi~n~natti ruupa. 
The vaayo dhaatu produced by the first six javana cittas support the 
vi~n~natti ruupa, they are its proximate cause.
I can quote some parts of my Visuddhimagga studies, Ch XIV, and 
tiika. The translator mentions the Tiika texts to Vis. XIV, 61, in a 
note, note 27.
-------
   'It is the mode and the alteration of what? Of
consciousness-originated primary elements that have the air-element in
excess of capability.
N: There is a certain unique change in the great Elements and the 
element of
wind or motion (air) plays its specific part. By means of gestures or 
bodily
movement certain intentions are displayed.
Text: What is that capability? It is the state of being consciousness-
born
and the state of being derived matter.
Nina: all rupas that are not the four Great Elements are derived 
rupas, and
these depend on the four great Elements. Bodily intimation is 
originated by
citta, not by kamma, temperature or nutrition.
Text: Or alternatively, it can be taken as the mode of alteration of 
the air
element. If that is so, then intimation is illogical as derived matter,
for there is no derived matter with a single primary as its support,
since "matter derived from the four great primaries" (M.i,53) is said.
That is not wrong. Alteration of one of the four is that of all four, as
with wealth shared among four. And excess of air element in a material
group (kalaapa) does not contradict the words "of the air element"; and
excess is in capability, not in quantity, otherwise their inseparability
would be illogical.
N: The four great Elements and also four other rupas (colour, odour, 
flavour
and nutrition) form an octad, they are inseparable, always arising 
together.
The excess of the element of wind or motion does not mean: there is 
more of
it in that group, but it means: it plays its specific part in being 
capable
of causing gestures etc. expressing a meaning....
Text: Since the intention possessed of the aforesaid alteration is 
intimated
through the apprehension of that alteration, it is said that "Its 
function
is to display intention". The air element being the cause of the 
motion of the
body intimation, is figuratively said, as a state of alteration, to be
"manifested as the cause of bodily motion". "Its proximate cause is the
consciousness-originated air-element" is said since the air element's
excessive function is the cause of intimating intention by movement of
the body' (Pm. 450-52). Cf. DhsA. 83f.

N: excessive function of the air-element: to recap the beginning of this
note: The excess of the element of wind or motion does not mean: 
there is
more of it in that group, but is means: it plays its specific part in 
being
capable of causing gestures etc. expressing a meaning. Thus the 
excess is
not quantitative.
The citta that conditions intimation arises in a mind-door process, 
and the
citta that apprehends that intimation also arises in a mind-door 
process...
   It is hard to pinpoint, but we know it is the cause of gestures or 
facial expression which display a meaning or intention. In order to 
understand this rupa it is not helpful to think of a whole situation 
or story, such as: I type and then I make known a wish, etc. Then we 
shall not know that rupa. It is not a word or term, it is not 
theoretical, but it is rupa, it is an element, it is real. It is a 
very subtle rupa, arising and falling away with one moment of citta.
It can be directly known by insight, but it depends on whether it 
appears to the insight knowledge or not. Not all rupas have to be 
known by vipassana ~naa.na, but we should not say that it is 
impossible to know it.
   Different processes of cittas are dealt with that know objects 
through different doorways. Nama and rupa. Rupas produced by citta 
which has the intention to display a meaning. It is very daily, 
occurs all the time. But we forget that there are, in the absolute 
sense, just nama and rupa arising because of their appropriate 
conditions. When you speak and move your hands to emphasize your 
words, there is already bodily intimation. We take it for self! There 
can also be conceit on account of it. We attach importance to our 
gestures, to <my personality>.
(end of my quotes)
-------
Jim,  your dilemma was twice janeti,  (gacchāmī”ti cittaṃ 
uppajjati, taṃ vāyaṃ janeti, vāyo
viññattiṃ janeti),but as it is said, we have to take this 
figuratively.
This ruupa is hard to pinpoint, we cannot catch it. If we try to 
label ruupas, the question is: who is doing so? It seems like a self 
selecting certain ruupas as object of understanding.
---------
Nina.







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