Re: the title 'Sayadaw'

Dear all,

here is another useful information by my friend Georg Noack who has recently completed his Ph.D. degree in Myanmar Studies (well, officially Southeast Asian Studies, I suppose) at the Humboldt University in Berlin AND has also become father of three very sweet half-Burmese children during the last four years :-).

Susi
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Hallo Susi,

korrekt transliteriert (im Gegensatz zu den allgemein verbreiteten Transkriptionen) schreibt sich das moderne Wort 'Sayadaw' <Charaa to>.  Pali varga <ca cha ja jha ña> wird im Myanmarischen "sa sha za za nya" gesprochen - auch in Paliwörtern, also auch setana (cetanaa), hsanda (chanda),  zaati (jaati), und zaan (jhaana).  'Sha' wird alternativ oft als 'Hsa' transkribiert, um Verwechslungen des gemeinten aspirierten scharfen S mit dem Englishen sh (in she, shame...) zu vermeiden. 'Ra' wird im modernen Myanmarisch zu 'ya'.
Die Myanmar Language Commission (MLC) gibt als Etymologie des Wortes Saya (Lehrer, Meister...) - na, was wohl: aacaarya (was sich dann irgenwie zu charaa zusammengezogen hat - wie ist mir leider auch nicht klar.) Es gibt jedoch eine ganze Reihe solcher seltsamer Verzerrungen, genannt "Pali the'" (Pali Derivate) die im eigens zu diesem Zweck von  der MLC herausgegebenen "Pali the' abhidhaan" (Wörterbuch) mit weit über tausend Seiten Umfang nachzulesen sind...
Das "to" (edel, königlich, verehrungswürdig) ist jedoch meines Wissens ursprünglich myanmarisch.

Ich hoffe das hilft,

Georg
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I try to translate quickly (and there WILL be mistakes, sorry...)
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Dear Susi,

Correctly transliterated (in contrast/opposition to the generally spread transcriptions) the modern word 'Sayadaw' is spelt <Charaa to>.  The Pali varga <ca cha ja jha ña> is pronounced "sa sha za za nya"  in Burmese --even in Pali words, so there is also setana (cetanaa), hsanda (chanda),  zaati (jaati), and zaan (jhaana).  'Sha' is often alternatively transcribed as 'Hsa', in order to avoid confusion of the meant aspirated sharp S with the English 'sh' (in she, shame...). 'Ra' becomes 'ya' in modern Burmese.

The Myanmar Language Commission (MLC) gives the etymology of the word 'Saya' (teacher, master...) -- well, you guessed it -- as: aacaarya (which has somehow become contracted to charaa - how, I'm afraid, I don't understand either). There is quite a bunch of these odd distortions, called "Pali the'" (Pali derivates), which can be looked up in the "Pali the' abhidhaan" (dictionary), issued specifically for this purpose by the MLC, providing a scope of more than a thousand pages...
As far as I know, the "to" (noble, royal, worth of reverence) is of Burmese derivation though.

Hope that will help

Georg
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-------- Original-Nachricht --------
> Datum: Mon, 30 Aug 2010 15:48:57 +0530
> Von: Nyanatusita <nyanatusita@...>
> An: palistudy@yahoogroups.com
> Betreff: Re: [palistudy] the title \'Sayadaw\'

>   Dear Chris,
>
> Thanks. I was earlier told that the second a is long and that it should
> be Sayaa.do.  This is also how it sounded to me but I would need to hear
> it again from a Burmese monk to be sure.
>   The transliteration as given in the collection of books by the Ledi
> Sayadaw included in the VRI edition of the Chattha Sangayana is Le.di
> Sayaa.do, i.e.  Le.di Sayaa.do Gantha-Sa''ngaho.



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