Re: Kc 2

Dear All,

I'd like to suggest an alternative translation for the sutta: ekacattālīsaṃ—
the forty-one; ādayo — characters beginning with 'a'; akkharā api — are
those letters referred to in the previous sutta; or, are also called
'letters.'

**
The Visuddhāyone translation of the suttas gives two meanings for api: 1.
heṭṭhāpekkhattha; and 2. samuccayattha [ie, these 41 are called akkhara as
well as being called vaṇṇa, which I translated as "characters."

Mahāgandhāyone Sayadaw [Ashin Janakābhivaṃsa] remarks that he doesn't think
this is a saññā sutta, but that it serves to identify the set of characters
or sounds used by Pāḷi, because terms such as "akkhara" and vaṇṇa" were in
use and recognized as meaning the sounds or letters of a language.  He
points out as evidence of this that the word nāma is not found in the vutti,
and thinks "tena kvattho" and so on is a later addition not reflecting
Venerable Kaccāyano's intent.

regarding "taṃ yathā? a ā i ī u ū e o; ka kha ga gha ña; ca cha ja jha ña;
ṭa ṭha ḍa
ḍha ṇa; ta tha da dha na; pa pha ba bha ma; ya ra la va sa ha ḷa aṃ. Iti
akkharā nāma.", AJ points out that the first sentence asks, "What are these
letters?"; the second identifies the set of letters/sounds used by Pāḷi and
the third sentence concludes, "These are called letters."

He also makes the comment concerning the Burmese-Pāḷi alphabet that "...the
vowel 'a' is present in ka-gyi, kha-khwe and so on [the consonants of the
Burmese-Pāḷi alphabet.]  That 'a' is only there for the sake of
pronunciation.  In fact, the letter is only the consonant without a vowel:
k, kh and so on."  He cites Moggallāna Pañcikā as evidence of that, "evaṃ
laddhasaññe akārādayo sarūpato āha a ā iccādi.  kakārādīsu akāro
uccāraṇattho."

Given that, I propose that in this sutta consonants be written without the
vowel, therefore,  k kh g gh ṅ, c ch j jh ñ, ṭ ṭh ḍ ḍh ṇ, t th d dh n, p ph
b bh m, y r l v s h ḷ ṃ.  This is consistent with the PTS's use of K, Kh and
so on as headings in the PTS dictionary.

Regarding "Tena kvattho? Attho akkharasaññāto", I think U Nandisena used the
word "benefit" as a translation of attho in a later draft. One could also
use "result", therefore kvattho=ko attho - what is the result or benefit;
tena - of that, ie, of establishing the name "akkhara"? Attho akkharasaññāto
- the result is the use of the term "akkhara" in suttas such as Attho
akkharasaññāto.

with metta,
Ma Vajira


On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 8:28 PM, Jim Anderson <jimanderson_on@...>wrote:

> [Kaccāyanabyākaraṇaṃ, Sutta 2]
>
> 2. 2. Akkharā p' ādayo ekacattālīsaṃ (1,2).
>
> Te ca kho akkharā api akāradayo ekacattālīsaṃ Suttantesu sopakārā.
>
> Taṃ yathā? a ā i ī u ū e o; ka kha ga gha ña; ca cha ja jha ña; ṭa ṭha ḍa
> ḍha ṇa; ta tha da dha na; pa pha ba bha ma; ya ra la va sa ha ḷa aṃ. Iti
> akkharā nāma.
>
> Tena kvattho? Attho akkharasaññāto.
>
> And these letters which are forty one beginning with ‘a’ are very useful in
> the Discourses.
>
> Which are these? a ā i ī u ū e o; ka kha ga gha ña; ca cha ja jha ña; ṭa
> ṭha
> ḍa ḍha ṇa; ta tha da dha na; pa pha ba bha ma; ya ra la va sa ha ḷa aṃ.
> These are called ‘letters’(akkharā).
>
> What is the need of that (saying letters)? The meaning is known by letters
> (see §1).
>
> -- translation by Ven. U Nandisena, 2004
>
> -- posted by Jim Anderson, 8 January 2010 (the day after the last quarter)
>
> Notes:
>     1) "Akkharā p' ādayo ekacattālīsaṃ  (1,2).." = And the letters
> beginning with 'a' are forty-one. The padaccheda (word-division) of the
> phrase "Akkharā p' ādayo" is: akkharā api a-ādayo.
>     2) Suttas 2 to 8 define technical terms and are of the saññāsutta type,
> one of four types of suttas. Kc 1 is of the parihhāsāsutta (interpretative
> rule) type.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
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