Re: the last part of Sd 880

Hi Rett,

> >  I also wonder if 'wicked' is the
> > opposite of 'lovely'. Perhaps, 'good or bad' might be better:
> > wishing for a future goal, good or bad, is called 'aspiration'.
>
> Yes, I went out on a limb there. I'm curious what you and others
> think about the words 'sundara' and 'asundara'. I read them as being
> slightly flowery uses of language in the Pali. So I translated with
> 'lovely' (like in the well-known translation of kalyaa.na) which
> combines moral goodness with beauty. 'Wicked' was an attempt to find
> an antonym at the same stylistic level, though I admit it does sound
> like something from Snow White or the Wizard of Oz. Normally one
> would expect a more sober tone in grammatical literature.

Choosing the right words in a translation can be quite a challenge! I
believe that translation work of good quality can only be easy for one
who has an excellent command over both the source and the target
language. Unfortunately, I'm among those who find translation work
quite difficult and often with unsatisfactory results as there always
seems to be room for further improvement.

In your "wishing for a lovely or a wicked purpose...", I find it
strange to be 'wishing for a purpose' in the context and my 'wishing
for a goal' also seems strange although 'wishing to attain a goal'
would be better. I came across 'advantage' in the meanings
given by Apte for 'artha' (8a) and thought of that as a
possibility--wishing for an advantage to be obtained in the future
whether for a good or an evil (purpose). But that 'to be obtained'
does sound awkward there. Perhaps, 'the wish to attain a future goal
whether good or evil/bad is called 'patthanaa'.

I looked into the derivation of 'sundara' which is not too well
documented. Apte gives: sund-ara.h (U.n 3.133) ie. the root 'sund' +
the u.naadi affix 'ara'. He does not have a separate entry for the
root 'sund' which is neither listed in Panini's Dhaatupaa.tha nor in
the Saddaniiti. However, MW does have an entry saying that it is a
Sautra root meaning 'to shine, be bright' which sounds right although
the term 'Sautra root' is a new one for me. I could not find any
'sundara' listed in my reference work on the u.naadisuutras.

I'm more familiar with 'sundara' as one of the meanings of the prefix
'su' and have come across these two synonyms given for it in the
commentaries: kalyaa.na and saadhu.

> Another word which I have a similar question about is sa.mcaranti
> in:
>
> paa.liya.m hi etaa hiyyatan'-ajjataniyo anekasahassadhaa
> maa-yoga.t.thaane sa.mcaranti. Sd 888
>
> "These imperfect/aorists turn up in numerous thousands of ways in
> the canon in connection with 'maa'."

I'm afraid I can't help much with this one as it doesn't look familiar
to me. Your guess seems fine to me.

Best wishes,
Jim