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Dear friends,

I would like to take advantage of Jim's permission to use his list for
Pali matters to ask for your comments on this message posted in DL and
at the end there is my thoughts on it:


Date:  Fri Nov 23, 2001  9:55 am
Subject:  Re: No Existential Residues In Parinibbaana

--- In dhamma-list@..., abhidhammika@... wrote:
>
> Dear Dhamma Friends
>
> The following is an updated reply to a recent request of Robert
> Kirkpatrick regarding an untranslated Paali passage he found in Pali
> Text Society's Pali-English Dictionary. Although this list is a
> general list, I hope that some of the list members wouldn't mind
> reading an occasional academic message like the following. It is a
> translation of a Paali Atthakathaa passage on the topic
> of 'Parinibbaana'. As PTS dictionary hasn't translated it yet, you
> may well be reading the first translation of the Paali passage in
> question.
>
> Best Wishes!
>
> Suan
>
>
>   ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Dear Robert Kirkpatrick
>
> How are you?
>
> The follwoing quote from Section 89, Dhammapada Atthakathaa clearly
> tells us that there is no consciousness component in Parinibbaana
> after the death of an Arahant.
>
> I tried my best to provide as lateral a translation as possible -
> syntatically in particular - while making sure that the readers can
> read as natural English as possible. If you found any unclear points
> in the translation, please let me know. My present translation has
> been influenced by Nibbaanadhaatu Sutta Atthakathaa in Itivutta
> Atthakathaa.
>
> "Parinibbutaa  naama  arahattapattito  patthaaya  kilesavattassa 
> khepitattaa  sa-upaadisesena, carimacittanirodhena   khandhavattassa
              
> khepitattaa  anupaadisesena   caati   dviihi   parinibbaanehi  
> parinibbutaa,  anupaadaano viya padiipo apannattikabhaavaam gataati
> attho."
>
> "`Parinibbutaa' is the ultimate cool by means of two-way complete
> extinguishments, one with the existential residues emptied of
> defilement machinery ever since attainment of Arahatta awakening,
and
> the other without the existential residues emptied of psychophysical
> machinery by termination of the last mind (the dying consciousness).
> It has the meaning of reaching the state of the undefined reality
> like the lamp without fuel."
>
> Parinibbaana - complete extinguishment
> Kilesavatta - defilement machinery (vatta is literally circle,
cycle,
> or round. We have 'Vicious Circle' in English.)
> Khandhavatta - psychophysical machinery
> Apannattikabhaavo - the state of undefined reality
>
> Upaadiseso - existential residues (upaadi is merely another name of
> pancakkhadhaa). Upaadi means phenomena taken strongly by craving or
> attachment (tanhaa).
>
> As such, we can know for sure that Anupaadisesa Nibbaana is emptied
> of the five khandhaas. Therefore, after the death of an Arahant, the
> scenario of nibbaana having the consciousness component
> (viññaanakkhandho) is out of the question. There is no textual
> support for such a scenario.
>
>
> With regards,
>
> Suan Lu Zaw
>
> http://www.bodhiology.org


Dear Suan,

Thank you for sharing this very interesting document, personally
anything to do with the Tipitaka/Commentaries unfailingly has my
attention.  Of course there are Thai translations of most of them but
my Pali as well as my memory is very poor, so the English rendering
interests me as possible reference material as well. 

First of all your conclusions concerning the gist the passage is in
accordance with my own studies, that after parinibbana there is
nothing left of the six senses which are the only ones we know.  There
can be no eyes, ears, nose tongue body sense or mind then, I
absolutely agree. 

I realize you must have done much work on this English version, and I
really appreciate the effort, and especially the detailed explanation,
but I hope you won't mind some comment and questions on the
translation itself, as I am interested in Pali as well:

Since as you say, '(vatta is literally circle, cycle, or round. We
have 'Vicious Circle' in English.)'  how did you derive the word
'machinery' from it?  Is there support of any kind in the Commentaries
for this connotation?

Thanks again for sharing this text and translation, and anumodana,

Amara