Re: Nina's transl. co 49. A.N. I 51

Dear Nina,

You wrote:
Dear Jim, I just translate very gradually. I realize that the correction may
be too much work for you. Too many problems, starting with navame, locative?
Later on it is dasame. Where does ya.mki~nci belong? The last sentence I did
is very long. I do not mind if you find corections too time consuming,
meanwhile, I am having a good time with these texts. Shall I go on with the
next parts? By the way, did you receive my vi-particles and translation of
with consciousness unestablished? And I just wanted to know the correct
translation of aparaapariya, thank you very much, Nina.

J: I responded to much of this in my reply dated July 23. Looking back at it
I seem to have overlooked 'aparaapariya' which I thought I had answered but
apparently not. The CPD gives "a series (of rebirths)". Some of your words
are surrounded by a superscript 2 or 3 on my computer screen which I think
probably has to do with a different character set you use on the Mac.
Perhaps they show up as quotation marks on your screen.

navame pabhassaranti pa.n.dara.m parisuddha.m.  cittanti
bhava"ngacitta.m. ki.m pana cittassa va.n.no naama atthiiti?  natthi.

N: As to the ninth (?),” luminous”. Luminous, pure citta is the
life-continuum. But does this citta have indeed a colourful appearance? No,
it does not have this.

J: navame = in the ninth [sutta: AN I.49]. 'as to' seems okay to me.
pa.n.dara.m & parisuddha.m explain pabhassara.m. I would use a different
translation for pa.n.dara.m (clear?) instead of 'luminous' which is already
used for 'pabhassara.m'. There should be a period after 'pure'
(parisuddha.m) in 'pure citta'. I think 'va.n.no' is just 'colour' (of
visible objects).

J: transl.: "In the ninth <sutta>: 'luminous' is clear, pure. 'mind' is
bhava"ngacitta. But does there exist namely (indeed?) a colour of citta?
No." I'm not sure of the right translation for 'naama' here which is one I
often have trouble with.

niilaadiina~nhi a~n~natarava.n.na.m vaa hotu ava.n.na.m vaa ya.mki~nci
parisuddhataaya ``pabhassara''nti vuccati.

N: Let there be a blue colour or another colour, or no colour, or whatever
it may be, it is called luminous because of it purity.

J: For anything which may be a certain colour of [those] beginning with blue
or without colour because of its purity is called 'luminous'.

J: A 'hi' (for, because -- often seen as the second word) indicates that the
sentence is giving an explanation of 'luminous' and the reason for the
previous statement "No." It says to me that 'pabhassara.m' can be a colour
as say for the sixth one in the sixth-coloured rays ('dazzling' as
translated in The Expositor) or it can be colourless as in the case for
'citta'. It is not clear to me why the accusative ending (-a.m) for
'va.n.no' is used here with 'hotu' which I think should be in the nominative
(-o). Also, I'm unsure of the use of 'hotu' and 'ya.mki~nci' in this
construction and whether 'because of
its purity' extends only to 'without colour' or to the former as well.

idampi nirupakkilesataaya parisuddhanti pabhassara.m. ta~nca khoti ta.m
bhava"ngacitta.m.

N: It is also pure, luminous, because it is unsoiled (by defilements). It is
for sure that life-continuum.

J: I think 'luminous' is in the wrong place (note the 'ti' in 'parisuddhan
ti'). I would put it something like this: "It is also pure because it is
unsoiled (by defilements); thus 'luminous'." Nirupakkilesataa is lit. 'a
state of <being> without defilement(s)'. I thought of a reason for the
'pabhassara.m' at the end might be to show that the commentary on
'pabhassara.m' is now finished. I think you have missed the point of the
next sentence. 'ta~nca kho' is quoted directly from the sutta and the
comment is just to show that the 'ta.m' in 'ta~nca' refers to
'bhava"ngacitta'. It's quite straightforward.

aagantukehiiti asahajaatehi pacchaa javanakkha.ne uppajjanakehi.

N: “ by oncoming “(defilements).  by those that do not accompany it, but
arise later at the moment of impulsion (javana).

J: I think you might be confusing 'asahajaatehi' (non-conascent) with
'asahagatehi' (unaccompanied).

J: 'by the oncoming <defilements>': by the non-conascent, by the arising at
the moment of impulsion afterwards.

upakkilesehiiti raagaadiihi upakkili.t.thattaa  upakkili.t.tha.m naamaati
vuccati.

N: “by defilements”. By being soiled by desire  etc. it is indeed called
defiled.

J: This seems to be okay, although I'm not quite sure what purpose 'naama'
serves here and whether or not another meaning might be intended. As I
mentioned earlier it's a troublesome word for me. One can see that
'raagaadiihi' (by passion, etc) is what is meant by 'upakkilesehi'. In the
PTS commentary, there is a period after 'raagaadiihi' and the next sentence
has 'upakkili.t.than ti' instead of 'upakili.t.thattaa'. The Burmese and
Thai version both agree with 'upakili.t.thattaa'.

There is still much more left for me to go over but will stop here for now
and continue on with it a little later. I just wanted to post something
before you went away.

Best wishes,
Jim


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com