Re: Sarah's list

Dear Nina,

>Dear Jim, thank you for your letter with useful directions. I am very glad
>you will first deal with Sarah's list, because her points are very relevant
>and interesting. I am looking forward to your remarks. I would like to add
>one more point. Robert was quoting from Ven. Soma's commentary to the
>satipa.t.thaana sutta, about  "the particular sense of awareness". Since I
>am still thinking of pa.ti patti, I would like to know what this is in
Pali,
>visesa? Here is the text :

  'visesa' does appear with the word 'jaanana' (knowing). See below. I have
already dealt with Sarah's list but didn't go into too many details as it
always seems that once I start delving into particular words or phrases a
lot of time flies by.

>Gacchanto va gacchamiti pajanati = "When he is going (a bhikkhu)
>> understands: 'I am going.'" In this matter of going, readily do dogs,
>> jackals and the like, know when they move on that they are moving.
>> But this instruction on the modes of deportment was not given
>> concerning similar awareness, because awareness of that sort
>> belonging to animals does not shed the belief in a living being, does
>> not knock out the percept of a soul, and neither becomes a subject of
>> meditation nor the development of the Arousing of Mindfulness.
>>
>> Going. The term is applicable both to the awareness of the fact of
>> moving on and to the knowledge of the (true) characteristic qualities
>> of moving on.
>> The terms sitting, standing and lying down, too, are applicable in
>> the general sense of awareness and in the particular sense of
>> knowledge of the (true) characteristic qualities. Here (in this
>> discourse) the particular and not the general sense of awareness is
>> to be taken. "" ENDQUOTE

The following is the Pali text of the above paragraph beginning with
'Going'.

'gacchanto vaa' ti aadi gamanaadimattajaananassa
gamanaadigatavisesajaananassa ca saadhaara.navacana.m. tattha
gamanaadimattajaanana.m na idhaadhippeta.m, gamanaadigatavisesajaanana.m
pana adhippetan ti ta.m vibhajitvaa dassetu.m 'tattha kaaman' ti aadi
vutta.m. (DA.T ii 384 pts -- same for MA.T)

Apparently, Soma Thera's translation is rather free and interpretive since
much of it is not actually in the original Pali. The most difficult word to
understand is: 'gamanaadigatavisesajaanana.m' especially the 'gatavisesa'
part. You might want to think about some other possible meanings. 'the
particular sense of knowledge of the (true) characteristic qualities' (of
moving on, etc.) is Soma's rendering of the whole compound. 'of the (true)
characteristic qualities' seems to be his interpretation of 'visesa'. And
somehow 'the particular sense' slipped in.

'or going' and so on is an expression common to <both> knowing the mere fact
of going and so on and knowing the particulars concerning going and so on.
Therein, 'knowing the mere fact of going and so on' is not meant here but
'knowing the particulars concerning going and so on' is what is meant. after
analysing thus and in order to show this, 'therein according to inclination'
and so on is said.

I've translated 'gatavisesa' as 'the particulars concerning' taking the
'gata' (concerining) to be like the one in 'kaaya-gataa-sati (mindfulness
concerning the body). I'm a little fuzzy on 'ti ta.m vibhajitvaa dassetu.m'.
Could 'the particulars' be referring to the questions: ko gacchati (who
goes?) etc.? Other meanings I thought of for 'visesa': distinctions,
differences, details.

>From August 25 I shall be silent for one week, because we are going away.
>Nina.

Thanks for telling us and I hope you have a nice trip. That still leaves me
with some time to work more on your AN I.49 com. translation before you go.

Jim


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com