Re: pa.tipatti

--- In palistudy@..., ppp <miyamoto@...> wrote:
> Hi, Amara:
> (I) Thank you very much for your extensive explation to clear
> my vague question.
>
Thank you for your question!  Isn't the internet great?  I think Alan
would have loved it, don't you?  He would have been such a great asset
to the discussions.  Have you seen his article in my website?  It's in
the beginner's section, http://www.DhammaStudy.com .  I also have his
picture at the Bodh Gaya as one of the backgrounds of the children's
section, called 'My First Dhamma', in the article called 'Recitals'. 
The question on this page is so sweet by the way, and my friend Varee
wrote an answer just as sweet, which I translated.

Also sorry for misspelling 'betel nut' in my last message, I don't
know how it turned into 'beetle nut', perhaps my affection for bugs
(except the yukky cockroaches and the computer viruses) is showing!

> (ii) With respect to the lexical similarities between Thai and Khmer
> words, as you said, it is a well known fact that Thai borrowed many
terms
> on Royal rites and rituals from Khmer. But I didn't know that there
are
> many lexical similarities in such commonly used words as: 'keet "to
be
> born" and 'saat' "to be clear".

I would guess that 'keet' is the Thai word pronounced 'gerd' , "to be
> born" as you said, and I'm not sure about 'saat' "to be clear" but
'sah-aard' in Thai is "clean".  When I was in Cambodia, drinking water
is called 'nam sohd', and 'sohd' in Thai means "fresh", nam as you
remember is the same in Thai.

> (iii) As for the words for numbers (e.g, 20, 30, 40, etc.), I cannot
> remember precisely, which words are simily between in Thai and in
> Khmer (since I do not have (a library copy of) the book I had looked
> at now. But when I looked at the book, I was suprised by the fact
that
> there are commonality among number terms betwen Thai and Khmer.
>
Oh yes, and with the Laos also!  As I said they used to be our land,
as far as Vietnam, and many things in Vietnam are called 'siim'
(Siam), for example young coconut is 'yeuah siim' one of their very
nice coriander type plants is also 'siim'.  It's rather flattering
that most of the term refers to nice things!

> (iii) At any rate, as you mentioned, the borrowing must have been
> bi-directional, given the gegraphical proximatory of Thailand and
> Cambodia.
>
> (iv) Here I have anohter question. It is on Mon. I learnt a bit
about
> the history of Mon people and langauge. They used to live in the
area
> which we now call "Burma". They were very educated and practiced
> the Theravada Buddhism. When they lost their country to Burmese, the
> Mon taught various things to the (Burmese) conquerors, including
> the Buddhim. I read somewhers saying that there are still
> nearly one million Mon people living in SEA asia. And more
interestingly,
> they are well regraded/respected by the Thai. Is it true that
> the Thai have a favourable feeling toward the Mon people, who
> are basically a home-less/country-less people for a long long time.
> tadao

I know of a Mon settlement now completely blended in with the Thai
except for the very nice pottery that might retain some of their
cultural heritage, up the Chao Phraya river.  I seem to remember they
helped fight the Burmese and were granted that island when they
followed the Thai general back during the Ratanakosin period.  There
are other communities that were driven here as war prisoners in other
areas of Thailand as well, that are not so well respected, my friend
Betty used to take her students to visit them as a minority community
up country, they retain much of their culture, she says, although they
have been here longer, I think.  If you like I will ask Betty to tell
us more about it, she's married to a great grandson of King
Chulalongkorn and very interested in Thai history and ethnology, and
has just retired from teaching.  She would be happy to share some of
her notes, you could even email her in private for greater details,
she is a born teacher!  Her understanding of the dhamma is really
great as well.

As you know before the colonialists came Thailand was much bigger,
with lands as far south as some of Indonesia and Singapore was of
course ours, etc.  Without the Chakri dynasty I don't think we could
have remained independent during the empire hunting days!!!  Some of
the maps from those days don't even have Thailand or Siam on it, just
the Chao Phraya as division between the territories.  My sister has
one of these maps framed on her wall, as part of her antique
collection.  As soon as they became independent again, most of our
neighbors sought help from Thailand reviving their art for example,
Khun Kukrit Pramoj once told us how we sent classical dance teachers
at their request, and helped revive even the Indonesian court dances,
although somewhat different from ours.  Now I think it's one of the
finest in the world.

Anyway I'm sorry about the digression, and I hope Jim won't mind us
wandering away from the Pali, although as in all Buddhist countries we
have lots of Dhamma terms converted to official, learned language in
Thai, Burmese, Cambodian and Laos and probably Indonesian as well,
comparable to what Gayan had described for us about pa.tipatti in the
Sri Lankan language.  (There!  I've covered my back!) 

It's great to discuss this with you, Tadao, and I know Jim doesn't
mind, he's too kind!

Amara