Re: AN I.51-52, translation

Hi,
I always thinking what kind of bhavanga I am in.Among
the eight vipaka and also which  bhavanga  is buddha
in.i do not think peta ,hell have the luminous
bhavanga like us since they have the other inferior
vipaka bhavanga.




--- Jim Anderson <jimanderson_on@...> wrote:
> Dear Nina,
>
> >> 1. 6. 1.
> >> pabhassaramida.m bhikkhave citta.m ta~nca kho
> aagantukehi upakkilesehi
> >> upakkili.t.tha.m.
> >N: This consciousness, monks, is luminous, and it
> is indeed corrupted by
> >oncoming defilements.
> >
> >>ta.m assutavaa puthujjano yathaabhuuta.m
> nappajaanaati.
> >N:The ordinary person who has not learned (the
> Dhamma, not listened to it)
> >does not understand it as it really is.
> >> tasmaa assutavato puthujjanassa cittabhaavanaa
> natthiiti vadaamiiti.
> >N:Therefore I say that for the ordinary person who
> has not listened there
> >is no mental development (literally. free: the
> ordinary person who has
> >not listened to the Dhamma has not developed the
> mind.)
> >
> >> 1. 6. 2.
> >> pabhassaramida.m bhikkhave citta.m ta~nca kho
> aagantukehi upakkilesehi
> >> vippamutta.m.
> >N: This consciousness, monks, is luminous, and it
> is indeed released from
> >oncoming defilements.
> >>ta.m sutavaa ariyasaavako yathaabhuuta.m
> pajaanaati.
> >N: The learned noble disciple understand it as it
> really is.
> >>tasma sutavato ariyasaavakassa cittabhaavanaa
> atthiiti vadaamiiti.
> >N: Therefore I say that the learned, noble disciple
> has developed the mind.
>
> As far as the grammar goes I couldn't find much
> wrong in your translation. I
> would encourage more consistency in sentence
> structure. Compare:
> "Therefore I say that for the ordinary person who
> has not listened there
> is no mental development." with the last line of the
> second sutta. The com.
> interprets "cittabhaavanaa" as "citta.t.t.hiti
> cittapariggaho".
>
> >Remarks: sutavaa seems to be from sutavant, just
> like mahaa from mahavant.
> >Ta~nca: a niggahita before the c. Aagantuka: who
> has arrived, a visitor.
>
> sutavaa is indeed from the stem 'sutavant'. sutavaa
> is the form for the
> masc. sing. nom. and sutavato is the gen. (or dat.)
> form. It is declined
> like 'bhagavaa'. 'mahaa' is somewhat similarly
> declined but belongs to a
> different group which has the nom. sing. form
> 'maha.m' unlike 'sutavaa'. I
> don't think there is a stem 'mahavant'. You probably
> mean 'mahant'.
>
> 'aagantuka' is used in the sutta as an adj according
> to the CPD which gives
> the following meanings: 3) external, accessory,
> adventitious, accidental,
> incidental. I think oncoming or incoming is better.
>
> The
> >upakilesas, defilements arising with the citta
> (different from the
> anusayas,
> >latent tendencies who do not arise with the akusala
> citta but can condition
> >akusala), are like visitors from outside. It seems
> disturbing, but we have
> >to note: the ariyan knows the citta as it really
> is: yathaabutta. One has
> to
> >know also akusala citta as it is, otherwise one
> cannot become an ariyan,
> >this is stressed in this short sutta.
> >Yathaabhuuta: bhuuta: that which has grown, is,
> exists, the truth.
> >yathaabhuuta: in its real essence, according to the
> truth.
> >vippamutta: pamu~ncati: to release. The prefix vip
> is usually a negation,
> >but what is it here?
>
> I'm not quite sure and the meaning of 'pa' has to be
> considered with 'vi' as
> well. Although there are only 20 prefixes
> (upasaggas) in Pali it can be
> difficult to know which of many meanings is
> applicable. In the
> Abhidhanapadipika 19 meanings are given for 'vi'
> alone while the Saddaniti
> gives 7 and PED gives 4. eg.
>
> vi (19)
> 1171. vividhaatisayaabhaavabhusattissariyaaccaye;
>           viyoge kalahe paatubhaave bhaase ca
> kucchane.
> 1172. duuraanabhimukhatthesu mohaanava.t.thitiisu
> ca;
>           padhaanadakkhataakhedasahatthaado vi
> dissati.
>
> I have separated the meanings in the verses as
> follows:
> vividhe atisaye abhaave bhusatte issariye accaye
> viyoge kalahe paatubhaave
> bhaase kucchane duure anabhimukhe mohe
> anava.t.thitiya.m padhaane
> dakkhataaya.m khede sahatthe (all ending in loc.
> sing.)
>
> The commentaries for the Tipitaka occasionally give
> the meaning of a prefix
> found in a specific word but can be hard to locate.
> Fortunately, after a
> quick search I found in the Mahatika of the
> Visuddhimagga: "visesato pamutta.m" for
> vippamutta.m. The Saddaniti gives
> 'visese' (distinction) as one of the 7 meanings of
> 'vi' with 2 examples:
> vimutti & visi.t.tho. We would then have to try and
> locate the meaning of
> 'pa' with the root 'muc'. It seems that there must
> be some difference in
> meaning between vippamutta and vimutta despite the
> dictionary treating both
> as having the same meaning. For all we know
> 'vippamutta' might mean
> 'distinctly separate' instead of 'released'.
>
> Thank you for your comments and quotes about the
> bhavangacitta. After
> reading them and studying the two suttas above I
> think I can understand the
> bhavangacitta a little better now. I take it that
> the luminous mind is also
> found in beings of the peta, animal, and hell
> realms.
>
> I have copied and pasted the Pali com. and subcom.
> for these two suttas and
> the two previous ones (AN I.49-52). If you or anyone
> else would like to
> receive a copy for further study please let me know.
> It's already converted
> to the email format. I thought it too lengthy to
> post directly to psg.
>
> Best wishes,
> Jim
>
>
>
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