Re: sutta 7: the vaggas

> Next for the translation which we need to keep using
> on dsg and for articles and books. Amara, I notice
> that you keep 'citta' in the msterpiece but in your
> writings, recently. you use intelligence which I must
> say I find a very strange translation and a rather
> confusing one because of all the English connotations
> we have for intelligence (sorry about that!)...but
> it's not easy. Usually it's been translated by us as
> consciousness or the reality which knows an object,
> but this is a real mouthful to have to use everytime
> on dsg. Mmmm...



Dear friends,

Perhaps with the three meanings of citta we might reconsider whether
the translation of consciousness is adequate since to me it implies a
degree of awareness of what one is doing.  Yet even in a coma or a
deep sleep the citta is still there at each instant, as the bhavanga
citta, (with some arammana from the past life which does not appear
through any of the present life's dvara) as object.  Therefore to
translate it as the 'consciousness' (of a comatic person for example)
would be more confusing to me than the 'intelligence' of a sleeping
person: you know it's there.  Which is certainly impossible in 'the
intelligence of a dead body', for example.  To me it seems more
precise; too bad the early master translators of the Tipitaka hadn't
chosen this term.  Beside, I really think it fits with the three
meanings more closely, consciousness alone seems to fall short of the
wonders of the citta to know, accumulate and create all at once.  Even
intelligence wouldn't cover it all, but it is more precise than
consciousness to my mind, pardon my departure from the translation
tradition.  What do you think, Jim?  I greatly value your opinion even
if I might beg to differ in the end!  (You will all find out why KS
calls me stubborn, even if it was not in the dhamma context!)  I'll
probably end up sent to the corner of this class with the dunce cap!

Which is why I am rather glad I translated my first dhamma book (in
fact any book at all!) without having much idea of any of the Pali
terms beforehand and went uniquely by what Khun Sujin explained in the
book itself.  Which might not be what is found in any dictionary but
certainly in the Tipitaka.  One example no other dict. would carry is
perhaps the meaning of 'loka' as something that is subject to
destruction, not only sphere, continent, world, and plane or dimension
of birth.  But as Khun Sujin explained, it is the definition used by
the Buddha somewhere in the Tipitaka, (I forget her source, but it's
there in the book).  Our glossary will contain all her explanations,
or as much as there is in the 'Summary', perhaps more as Varee finds
new terms in others of our translations.  By the way if anyone finds
anything they want to add to the gloss please send it in, I would
greatly appreciate it.  Uniquely Pali vocabulary found in any of KS'
writings, tapes or oral explanations, please, to keep it from turning
into the ordinary elephant size dict.  We're aiming at just a rather
comprehensive dhamma gloss to use with her teachings.  As Nina
mentioned, there is a detailed lexicon by K. Santi, a foundation
lecturer, (in Thai) already, an entire book in itself.  Nina said she
used his work in her translations, perhaps she might translate that
work one day if she finds the time, it is quite comprehensive in its
own rights, often using an entire page or more to explain one
complicated word. 

Thanks for giving me the chance to explain all this, Sarah, and thank
you, Jim, for creating this invaluable class, I hope you don't mind my
airing my arguments here as it concerns the Pali also, even if rather
peripherally.  (I'm hoping he doesn't send us both packing for dsg,
Sarah!)

Amara