Re: suttas 3-6: vowels & consonants

dear Jim,
Really excellent stuff. I'm  glad this is being preserved on the
yahoo.groups file. Maybe we should join escribe - the same as
dsg- under the members only scheme, so that a permanent backup
is available?
Rob
--- Jim Anderson <jima@...> wrote:
> Dear Amara,
>
> Sorry for such a terse welcome and thanks for filling in on
> the void left
> behind.
>
> >I really hope you won't regret your benevolence in giving me
> this
> >opportunity to study with you, when I said I would probably
> lurk at
> >the back of the class, I had no idea that it would be so
> fantastic!
> >As I said in a private note to you having taken the very
> first look at
> >PaliStudies,
>
> The time you spent lurking at the back of the class was rather
> short-lived!
> Now that you have come out of hiding feel free to sit at the
> front if you
> like. I notice your 'PaliStudies' which looks great. When I
> was thinking up
> of an email name for the group I had thought of 'palistudies'
> but chose
> 'palistudy' to match dhammastudy. I think that in the settings
> it is
> possible to change the email address and I'm open to name
> changes if anyone
> can think of a better one. The tag name can be changed too eg.
> [PaliStudy].
> Also any suggestions for improving the description of the
> group would be
> welcome.
>
> >>Thank you so much for this great privilege of studying with
> you. Your
> >>careful and thorough explanation makes it much less daunting
> than I
> >>had imagined, as well as amazingly interesting.  This is
> also a real
> >>treasure as document, would you consider at least an
> eventual link to
> >>DhammaStudy.com, to share it with other Pali students?
> Later on
> >>printing it in book form would be infinitely beneficial
> indeed...
>
> >And now the reason why you might want to invite me to leave
> someday;
> >my inquisitive mode is in gear:
>
> I'm doubtful this will ever become a reason for inviting you
> to leave. Your
> inquisitive mind is most welcome here and I look forward to
> answering your
> questions wherever possible.
>
> >Just some little details for starters, may I go back to the
> parts
> >before I joined?  What does niti in Saddaniiti mean?  Is it
> from the
> >same root as in the Nettipakarana?  Which would make it
> something like
> >a rule or law or behavioral code?
>
> Everyone is free to go back and bring up anything from
> previous posts, no
> matter how far back. You can also bring up anything else
> relating to Pali. I
> thought that once we have dealt with most of the material on
> the sounds of
> Pali we could start working on a very short sutta (a
> paragraph-sized one)
> taken directly from the Tipitaka. We can cover all what's
> needed to read the
> sutta in Pali.
>
> I don't know precisely what 'niiti' means, but I generally
> think of it as
> meaning guide or guidance while allowing for the possibility
> that it may
> have a more precise meaning that I have yet to come across.
> Sadda means
> sound but I suspect that it could mean something more specific
> in
> combination with 'niiti'. Niiti and netti both come from the
> same verbal
> root (dhaatu): 'nii' -to lead, guide, conduct. Naya (method) &
> vinaya also
> come from the same root. You will have noticed that the
> English title of the
> Nettippakara.na is _The Guide_. I think of the Nettippakara.na
> as a handbook
> for teachers and commentators. Your mention of 'rule' or 'law'
> is
> interesting. I noticed in PED the word 'niiticintaka' -
> lawgiver (cintaka
> means thinker).
>
> >What does kappa mean in the Sandhikappa is it the same word
> meaning
> >eons of time?
>
> I think 'kappa' here might be referring to the prescribed
> rules for sandhi.
> Many of the chapters of the Suttamaala, the third volume of
> the Saddaniiti,
> end with the word 'kappa'. Here is the table of contents:
>
> 20. sandhikappo (euphonic combination)
> 21. naamakappo (nominal words)
> 22. kaarakavibhaago (syntax)
> 23. samaasakappo (compounds)
> 24. taddhitakappo (secondary affixes)
> 25. aakhyaatakappo (verbs)
> 26, kibbidhaanakappo (primary affixes)
> 27. vacogadhapadavibhatti (4 classes of words)
> 28. paa.linayaadisa"ngaho (Pali methods (?), etc.)
>
> The 'kappa' as in 'mahaakappa' (great eon) means something
> quite different,
> although both kappas come from the same root 'kapp' which
> carries 3 basic
> meanings. I had a look at this one in the Dhaatumaala, the
> second volume,
> and found that 'kappa' is a very complex word with at least 19
> different
> uses such as in 'sa"nkappa' (thought), and so on.
>
> >And vutti?
>
> gloss, commentary (Skt. v.rtti).
>
> >A little question about grammar, in the first sutta,
> >1. appabhutekataaliisa saddaa va.n.naa.
> >1. (The) forty-one sounds beginning with 'a' (are the)
> va.n.na-s.
> >Is the verb completely out here as understood?  I know the
> grammar
> >will come a lot later (and am still a little apprehensive
> about
> >learning it), I would simply like a confirmation of my
> assumption.
>
> Yes, but according to its vutti the 3rd pers. plural verb
> 'bhavanti' (are)
> can be read into it. I think it would be okay to leave out the
> round
> brackets in a normal translation. I put them there to show
> that there is no
> verb or definite article in this sutta. You will notice that
> most of these
> suttas do not contain verbs. Verbless sentences (eg. ida.m
> dukkha.m) are
> fairly common in Pali and quite often a participle functions
> like a verb eg.
> evam me suta.m -- thus have I heard (lit. thus by me it was
> heard).
>
> >I have some questions about the akkharas but will wait until
> you have
> >taught about the pronunciations to ask them, probably by the
> time you
> >have finished I will have understood,
>
> Looking forward to more of your excellent questions.
>
> Best wishes,
> Jim
>
>


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