Re: suttas 3-6: vowels & consonants

Dear Amara,

Sorry for such a terse welcome and thanks for filling in on the void left
behind.

>I really hope you won't regret your benevolence in giving me this
>opportunity to study with you, when I said I would probably lurk at
>the back of the class, I had no idea that it would be so fantastic!
>As I said in a private note to you having taken the very first look at
>PaliStudies,

The time you spent lurking at the back of the class was rather short-lived!
Now that you have come out of hiding feel free to sit at the front if you
like. I notice your 'PaliStudies' which looks great. When I was thinking up
of an email name for the group I had thought of 'palistudies' but chose
'palistudy' to match dhammastudy. I think that in the settings it is
possible to change the email address and I'm open to name changes if anyone
can think of a better one. The tag name can be changed too eg. [PaliStudy].
Also any suggestions for improving the description of the group would be
welcome.

>>Thank you so much for this great privilege of studying with you. Your
>>careful and thorough explanation makes it much less daunting than I
>>had imagined, as well as amazingly interesting.  This is also a real
>>treasure as document, would you consider at least an eventual link to
>>DhammaStudy.com, to share it with other Pali students?  Later on
>>printing it in book form would be infinitely beneficial indeed...

>And now the reason why you might want to invite me to leave someday;
>my inquisitive mode is in gear:

I'm doubtful this will ever become a reason for inviting you to leave. Your
inquisitive mind is most welcome here and I look forward to answering your
questions wherever possible.

>Just some little details for starters, may I go back to the parts
>before I joined?  What does niti in Saddaniiti mean?  Is it from the
>same root as in the Nettipakarana?  Which would make it something like
>a rule or law or behavioral code?

Everyone is free to go back and bring up anything from previous posts, no
matter how far back. You can also bring up anything else relating to Pali. I
thought that once we have dealt with most of the material on the sounds of
Pali we could start working on a very short sutta (a paragraph-sized one)
taken directly from the Tipitaka. We can cover all what's needed to read the
sutta in Pali.

I don't know precisely what 'niiti' means, but I generally think of it as
meaning guide or guidance while allowing for the possibility that it may
have a more precise meaning that I have yet to come across. Sadda means
sound but I suspect that it could mean something more specific in
combination with 'niiti'. Niiti and netti both come from the same verbal
root (dhaatu): 'nii' -to lead, guide, conduct. Naya (method) & vinaya also
come from the same root. You will have noticed that the English title of the
Nettippakara.na is _The Guide_. I think of the Nettippakara.na as a handbook
for teachers and commentators. Your mention of 'rule' or 'law' is
interesting. I noticed in PED the word 'niiticintaka' - lawgiver (cintaka
means thinker).

>What does kappa mean in the Sandhikappa is it the same word meaning
>eons of time?

I think 'kappa' here might be referring to the prescribed rules for sandhi.
Many of the chapters of the Suttamaala, the third volume of the Saddaniiti,
end with the word 'kappa'. Here is the table of contents:

20. sandhikappo (euphonic combination)
21. naamakappo (nominal words)
22. kaarakavibhaago (syntax)
23. samaasakappo (compounds)
24. taddhitakappo (secondary affixes)
25. aakhyaatakappo (verbs)
26, kibbidhaanakappo (primary affixes)
27. vacogadhapadavibhatti (4 classes of words)
28. paa.linayaadisa"ngaho (Pali methods (?), etc.)

The 'kappa' as in 'mahaakappa' (great eon) means something quite different,
although both kappas come from the same root 'kapp' which carries 3 basic
meanings. I had a look at this one in the Dhaatumaala, the second volume,
and found that 'kappa' is a very complex word with at least 19 different
uses such as in 'sa"nkappa' (thought), and so on.

>And vutti?

gloss, commentary (Skt. v.rtti).

>A little question about grammar, in the first sutta,
>1. appabhutekataaliisa saddaa va.n.naa.
>1. (The) forty-one sounds beginning with 'a' (are the) va.n.na-s.
>Is the verb completely out here as understood?  I know the grammar
>will come a lot later (and am still a little apprehensive about
>learning it), I would simply like a confirmation of my assumption.

Yes, but according to its vutti the 3rd pers. plural verb 'bhavanti' (are)
can be read into it. I think it would be okay to leave out the round
brackets in a normal translation. I put them there to show that there is no
verb or definite article in this sutta. You will notice that most of these
suttas do not contain verbs. Verbless sentences (eg. ida.m dukkha.m) are
fairly common in Pali and quite often a participle functions like a verb eg.
evam me suta.m -- thus have I heard (lit. thus by me it was heard).

>I have some questions about the akkharas but will wait until you have
>taught about the pronunciations to ask them, probably by the time you
>have finished I will have understood,

Looking forward to more of your excellent questions.

Best wishes,
Jim