Dear Piya,

Thanks for the suggestion; that does seem to work, with samūha = whole. It almost seems to be acting as a conjunction in this context. Another possibility

“tadinaṃ means the one who has reached such a state in regards to what is known. Just as former fully enlightened Buddhas are to be honoured, such a one [the current Buddha] is to be honoured in this way. This is the explanation of ‘Go to that Buddha for refuge.’ This is also the meaning regarding [go to] the dhamma and saṅgha [for refuge]. It means the dhamma of the venerable, noble Buddhas together with the saṅgha of the eight noble persons."

So I am taking it to mean "the whole of the dhamma and the sangha" or "the dhamma together with the sangha".

Let's see if anyone else has a suggestion

Mettā,

Bryan


On , Bryan Levman <bryan.levman@...> wrote:
Hi Jim,

Thanks for the gloss; I'm not sure why, if it means saṅgha, it's repeated right after the word saṅgha. Piya is taking it as an adjective meaning "whole" which makes sense. Let's see what any of the others have to say.

Glad to hear you're busy on Mmd-nir. Let me know when you've found anything you'd like to talk about,

Best wishes,

Bryan











On Monday, January 27, 2014 4:28:14 PM, Piya Tan <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
 
Bryan,

In think you generally have the sense of the sentence:

tādīnaṃ varabuddhānaṃ dhammaṃ aṭṭhannaṃ ariyapuggalānaṃ saṃghaṃ samūhan ti yojanā.

Could we also render it this way?

"It means the Dharma of the noble Buddhas, and the Sangha that is the 8 noble individuals as a whole."

With metta,

Piya


On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 2:25 AM, Bryan Levman <bryan.levman@...> wrote:
 
Dear Friends,
 
Verse 249 of Thī reads
 
upehi buddhaṃ saraṇaṃ dhammaṃ saṅghañ ca tādinaṃ
samādiyāhi sīlāni tan te atthāya hehiti

which Norman, Elders' Verses 2, 27,  translates "...go to the venerable Buddha as a refuge, to the doctrine, and to the Order; undertake the rules of virtuous conduct; that will be to your advantage."
The commentary (Thī-a, 19725-29 ) reads,

tādinan ti diṭṭhādīsu tādibhāvappattaṃ. yathā vā purimakā sammāsambuddhā passitabbā, tathā passitabbato tādi. taṃ Buddhaṃ saraṇaṃ upehī ti yojanā. dhammasaṅghesu pi es’ eva nayo. tādīnaṃ varabuddhānaṃ dhammaṃ aṭṭhannaṃ ariyapuggalānaṃ saṃghaṃ samūhan ti yojanā.
which I tentatively translate as

“tādinaṃ means who has reached such a state in regards what is known. Just as former fully enlightened Buddhas are to be regarded, because of being so regarded, is such a one [the current Buddha]. This is the explanation of ‘Go to that Buddha for refuge.’ This is also the meaning regarding [go to] the dhamma and saṅgha [for refuge]. The explanation brings together (samūha?) the saṅgha of the eight noble persons with the dhamma of such excellent Buddhas.”

I'm not sure about the word samūhan ("multitute, mass, aggregation" < saṃvah, "to bring together" ? I assume).  Does anyone know what it means in this context?
 
Thanks for your help,
 
Bryan
 

 



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