Dear Bryan,

Well, all Warder is doing is stating the obvious... the question is why :)

If I am not mistaken, it's not actually a bahubbiihi, and that is where
the confusion stems from; it's a "tadassatthi" taddhita with .na paccaya
(which becomes o). See Kaccaayana:

>370, 405. saddhaadito.na.
>
>saddhaaiccevamaadito .na paccayo hoti “tadassatthi”iccetasmi.m atthe.
>saddhaa yassa atthi, tasmi.m vaa vijjatiibhi saddho, eva.m pa~n~no,

amaccharo.

Sorry to mislead with my earlier derivation, I wrote it too quickly.

Best,

Yuttadhammo

On 12/18/2011 12:10 AM, Bryan Levman wrote:
> Dear Ven. Yuttahdhammo and All,
>
> I think the answer is in Warder, Introduction to Pāli, page 187:
>
> "Stems in -an and -ar usually appear as simply -a in compounds (in any position) or are replaced by -ika...."
>
> So that would mean that attan, whose normal nom. sing ending is attā, becomes atta (atto, nom. sing) when in a bahuvrīhi (bahubbīhi) compound,
>
> Metta,
>
> Bryan
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Bryan Levman<bryan.levman@...>
> To: "Pali@yahoogroups.com"<Pali@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 1:14:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: pahitatto
>
>
>
> Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo,
>
> Yes I understand it's a bahuvrīhi, in this case modifying Kassapo, but why would it give up its own ending (which is already masculine, attā) and adopt an -o ending (which is also masc. referring to Kassapo)? I understand why a fem. noun (when acting as an adj.) gives up its -ā ending and adopts an -o ending if it modifies a masc. noun, as you have pointed out.
>
> However my understanding (in Sanskrit anyways, perhaps it's different in Pāli?) that a noun acting as a bahuvrīhi changes its ending only when the noun it is modifying is another noun of a different gender. Therefore in Skt. if one says rāmo mahātejāḥ ("Rāma of great splendour", the neuter noun tejas, must change to a masc. ending tejāḥ (Goldman, Introduction to Skt., 230), but the ending is still the ending of the masc. form of an -as ending noun - it does not change to the -a ending noun which Rāma uses. In this case, attā is masc. sing nom. and Kassapo is masc. sing. nom., so why would it change? unless it can be an optional -a ending noun, as Geiger suggests.
>
> Metta,
>
> Bryan
>
> ________________________________
> From: Yuttadhammo<yuttadhammo@...>
> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 8:46:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Pali] Re: pahitatto
>
>
>
> Dear Bryan,
>
> Here it doesn't mean "the self", it means "with a self that is pahita".
> It's a nominal derivation from another noun:
>
> yassa attaa pahito, so pahitatto.
>
> Another example:
>
> duppa~n~no - one with poor wisdom. Pa~n~naa is feminine, but the word
> refers to the man who has it.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Yuttadhammo
>
> On 12/17/2011 06:59 PM, Bryan Levman wrote:
>> Dear Friends,
>>
>> The phrase pahitatto occurs dozens of times in the Pāli writings, often in this context below, describing how a practitioner attains Arahantship:
>>
>>
>> eeko vuupaka.t.tho appamatto aataapii pahitatto viharanto... (alone, secluded, diligent, zealous, of resolute will, ... the monk attains the goal (e. g. Mahāsīhanādasutta, DN 1, 177).
>>
>> where it is usually translated as "of resolute will." All the translations seem to agree that pahita-atto is nom. sing. of attan, self, with pahita meaning "resolute." However, the usual nominative singular of attan is attaa, not atto.
>>
>> Geiger (section 92) says that attan (like raajan) can be used in the -a declension, but he gives no examples in the nom. sing ending in -o. Is anyone familiar with this form of atto in the nom. sing. in other contexts? Are we correct in taking this as the nom. sing of attan, or is it the nom. sing. of atta ("taken up," "undertaken," "begun"), which however, doesn't appear to make a lot of sense in this context?
>>
>> Thanks for your help,
>>
>> Metta,
>>
>> Bryan
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
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